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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7916835" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Yeah, that's part of it. A highly competent trial lawyer is likely going to be far more skilled at verbal persuasion and argument than the average person. But beyond that is the idea that things that we know about our characters can change without our permission. They don't happen because I've decided that my character is now angsty because his family was killed, or any similar characterization element. Instead, they happen as the result of play. When there are mechanics that involve aspects of the character such as their beliefs or goals or flaws, then those mechanics are kind of by default character driven game elements. I'm going to go with a loose example that doesn't use any specific system, just for the sake of discussion.If I give my character a flaw that he struggles with deep and unfathomable anger, then having mechanics that pull that forth as a focus of play.....will he give in to his anger or can he overcome it.....means that the actual gameplay is determining the outcome. The gameplay is about whether my character succeeds or fails to control his anger.This, to me, seems like the kind of play that is character driven, more so than a player simply deciding on characterization of his character based on the fictional elements of the game.Yes, for sure! I think there's strong resistance to this stuff because for a long time, many games have conditioned people to think that their character is their domain, and any decision for the character is to be made by the player. And there is nothing wrong with that kind of play. I don't think people should play games where they don't enjoy the mechanics, and I don't think that all games need to have such mechanics.For the first, what world do you mean? The fictional world within the game? I get the idea of this, but really, nothing matters to the fictional world. It's fiction. I think what matters has to be more about the players. Their characters are the way they've chosen to interact with the fiction....so it's everything, in that sense. Sure, they may be disposable or easily replaced, but it's still the vital connection to the fiction. For the second, I don't think it's a pure one or the other kind of situation. But I think that it's hard to not place importance on who the characters are specifically if you want character driven play. If the characters in the story can be easily swapped out for another, and little is changed about the course of play, then I don't think that it's strongly character driven play. I don't think that means that it is entirely absent of character driven elements, just that they are less central to play.I think that in most cases there is definitely player choice. Usually in the form of some goal or belief or something that they've selected at character generation. To go back to my example, I create a character in the game and I give him a flaw of "struggling with deep and unfathomable anger" that means that I, as a player, am choosing for that to be a focus of play. I'm basically saying to the GM "here's one of the things I want to explore in this game". That flaw can be tested through play, and ultimately, it's the play that will determine success or failure for the character. If the system instead allows me at any time to decide how my character behaves, then it may be a flaw that never comes up in play, or will only come up when I as a player decide it's convenient. The character's "struggle with deep and unfathomable anger" is anything but.Now, there are players that maybe play with a strong sense of character, and who will allow such a flaw to meaningfully complicate play for them. There's nothing that really prevents this kind of play. It's just that a game that has character traits and mechanics that promote this tend to do it more readily.</blockquote>

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