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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7917301" data-attributes="member: 16814">[USER=6799753]@lowkey13[/USER], [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER], [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] I wanted to weigh in on the use of mechanics to drive character play.&nbsp; Each of you said something on this, but it's been a few pages and I'm not up to digging up specific quotes.&nbsp; However, I wanted to engage you on the topic, so here's my take:Mechanics are not necessary for character driven play, but they help, a lot.&nbsp; You don't need them, and can have deep and meaningful character arcs without them, but, at that point, you're doing so ad hoc, as an unstructured (and often unspoken) agreement between player and GM.&nbsp; This is difficult, because it's very easy to cross a line using ad hoc approaches that one side or the other does not appreciate, but you can do it.&nbsp; I've been in a D&amp;D campaign that had, absent any mechanics, surprisingly deep character arcs, but that was, as I recognize it, a combination of the right game, right players, right GM, and right stories.&nbsp; It was a pretty good run.&nbsp; I played in other games with those same players, and the ad hoc character arcs didn't work as well or sometimes at all.&nbsp; So, while I agree ad hoc character arcs can occur, they're a challenge to do, and nearly impossible to do on command.That said, mechanical systems, with constraints, can often do a lot of the heavy lifting for character arcs, but need to be understood by all involved and play goals need to be aligned.&nbsp; This puts a bit of an artificial spin on play, where everyone's trying to do the arc and using the mechanics to do so, that it can be jarring for some that are wanting a more organic experience.&nbsp; Depending on the mechanics, game genre expectations, and player goals, this artificiality can vary greatly by system, so it can sometimes be reduced by finding the right setup, gamewise and genrewise.&nbsp; However, there's no doubt that mechanics can push character arcs, but the feel of that pushing can be offputting.Long and short, I suppose, is that I don't see system as being necessary for character arcs, but it's still important.&nbsp; Sometimes, system can be sufficient.&nbsp; I think system goes a great way towards defining play, but is not definitive of play, if that makes any sense.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7917301, member: 16814"] [USER=6799753]@lowkey13[/USER], [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER], [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] I wanted to weigh in on the use of mechanics to drive character play. Each of you said something on this, but it's been a few pages and I'm not up to digging up specific quotes. However, I wanted to engage you on the topic, so here's my take: Mechanics are not necessary for character driven play, but they help, a lot. You don't need them, and can have deep and meaningful character arcs without them, but, at that point, you're doing so ad hoc, as an unstructured (and often unspoken) agreement between player and GM. This is difficult, because it's very easy to cross a line using ad hoc approaches that one side or the other does not appreciate, but you can do it. I've been in a D&D campaign that had, absent any mechanics, surprisingly deep character arcs, but that was, as I recognize it, a combination of the right game, right players, right GM, and right stories. It was a pretty good run. I played in other games with those same players, and the ad hoc character arcs didn't work as well or sometimes at all. So, while I agree ad hoc character arcs can occur, they're a challenge to do, and nearly impossible to do on command. That said, mechanical systems, with constraints, can often do a lot of the heavy lifting for character arcs, but need to be understood by all involved and play goals need to be aligned. This puts a bit of an artificial spin on play, where everyone's trying to do the arc and using the mechanics to do so, that it can be jarring for some that are wanting a more organic experience. Depending on the mechanics, game genre expectations, and player goals, this artificiality can vary greatly by system, so it can sometimes be reduced by finding the right setup, gamewise and genrewise. However, there's no doubt that mechanics can push character arcs, but the feel of that pushing can be offputting. Long and short, I suppose, is that I don't see system as being necessary for character arcs, but it's still important. Sometimes, system can be sufficient. I think system goes a great way towards defining play, but is not definitive of play, if that makes any sense. [/QUOTE]

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