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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7918161" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think this is pretty fundamental.To requote some of the OP:The OP has clearly addressed the generation of emotional resonance by means of the creation of fiction out of whole cloth. And he has made it clear that this is not what he is looking for. He is looking for emotional resonance generated by the actual mechanical interplay of rules that produces material changes to a character that are fundamental to that character's place in the fiction.[USER=6688277]@Sadras[/USER]'s example is an examle of the creation of fiction out of whole cloth - by players rather than GM, which is (as best I can tell) why it was a "subplot" that other participants barely noticed until the players performed their pre-arranged climactic scene. Given that (to quote Sadras) "I and the other player present did nothing but watched in awe as this all played out in a game of D&D. No rolls were needed" I can only assume that this performance didn't take place during some moment of crisis in the "main arc" but rather was insulated from the main arc in terms of its occurrence and its consequences.I'm happy to take Sadras's word that this was a terrific experience for that group. But I think it's clear that it's not an example of what the OP is looking for, and is certainly not a counterexample to the claim that a necessary condition of getting what the OP wants is to drop the notion of "the adventure" or "the main story" that is authored by the GM.Moving away from GM-driven play, though necessary, is not sufficient. My current Classic Traveller game is not GM-driven - it's driven by a mixture of random determination (<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/classic-traveller-a-dice-driven-game.605171/" target="_blank">Classic Traveller is a very dice-driven game</a>) and framing in response to player cues. But those cues aren't the sort of character-based ones that will produce the sort of play the OP is looking for. To allude to Hamlet's Hit Points (which I think was mentioned upthread) the game is much closer to James Bond, or perhaps Alien, than to Casablanca, or Blade Runner.To actually address the OP;s concerns - ie to discuss approaches and techniques and systems that will allow what he is interested in to happen in a RPG - requires being honest about what we ourselves are doing in our play, and what sorts of experiences it is producing.</blockquote>

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