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Beginning to Doubt That RPG Play Can Be Substantively "Character-Driven"
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 7918495" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Longer than a century - a century ago the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Dust_Trio" target="_blank">Gold Dust Trio</a> took professional wrestling and turned it from a corruption riddled thing that was sometimes a legitimate combat sport to something where the booking was obvious if you knew what to look for.</p><p></p><p>This is relevant because despite the fact that endings in professional wrestling are pre-planned (sometimes but not always more is) character development can and does happen both within and outside the booking. In the case of the Reyes/Jones match you're talking about, there would be Consequences. </p><p></p><p>An obviously corrupt referee (for those not aware the ref is always part of the cast in pro-wrestling) is a big thing and doesn't happen that often - but it does several things. The first is that it solidifies Jones as a heel - someone the audience is intended to boo the hell out of. Jones' character has developed. The second is that it solidifies Reyes as the underdog babyface that the crowd is intended to cheer. The third is that it brings that specific referee onto the stage as an actual character (most of them are intended to be the next thing to anonymous) and we wonder what his motivation is.</p><p></p><p>And were this pro wrestling a ref cheating against you <em>would not be bad for the babyface/protagonist's career. </em>I see there as being two basic pro-wrestling storylines going forward - and in both of them Reyes is the protagonist.</p><p></p><p>1: Reyes was actually out of his league both metaphorically and literally. He was the local wrestling league champion who was granted a challenge for the national (NWA) title. And our guy won - but that bastard no good cheating smarmy guy robbed him of the prize. So how good is our guy? We now know he's good enough to beat the national champion - and by extension that makes all the local guys challenging Reyes look good because they are taking on someone who can beat the best guy in the world. Rick Flair by the way was a master of wrestling anyone in any style in America and leaving the local crowd thinking that their guy could have won. Reyes is still only a local hero but is a bigger one than before. (This sort of booking went away largely with national TV, the breakup of the NWA, and the loss of the local territories).</p><p></p><p>2: Reyes was part of the same league and lost through a bribed ref. He is <em>pissed</em> and is going to be spending a lot of time cutting promos on the champion as a no good low down bastard who has all the skill to make it to the top (you never run down your opponent's level of danger because it makes you look worse when you win or lose) and he wants a rematch. If he's at all good on the mic the crowd is completely behind Reyes because he was the peoples' champion and he was robbed. His complaint is legitimate. And this time to prevent a dirty cheating referee from robbing him the match can only be decided by knockout, pinfall, or submission. The ref will not otherwise intervene. After losing the first couple of rounds Jones brings a steel chair (or other foreign object) into the ring and proceeds to beat Reyes down with it - and the ref doesn't intervene because a disqualification is not a knockout, pinfall, or submission. Reyes loses by knockout after chair shot to the head. And Reyes is utterly pissed this time - and coming for the champion with blood in his eyes, but having beaten him twice the champion is not accepting any more challenges from him unless he can earn them (insert ridiculous task here). Reyes may be mad enough to turn heel at this point - or we have a perfect excuse to put our hero through some kind of gauntlet which he wins but takes an "injury" - or to put either his career or his hair on the line for the match. This time the match takes place in a steel cage so no foreign objects (except maybe knuckle dusters) can be brought in. And the crowd is white hot for the match and wanting to finally, <em>finally</em> see Reyes win the title he's deserved twice before. He almost certainly does - but what has getting there cost him? And what sort of champion is he going to be?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And this sums up my point neatly. He becomes just another also-ran in the legacy of Jon Jones <em>if and only if the results of the matches aren't pre-ordained</em>. Pulling something as major as a corrupt referee in a pre-ordained match is adding a massive amount of fuel to the fire that is the feud. And people care more about characters and feuds than they do about simple win/loss ratios.</p><p></p><p>The New York Times stopped reporting the results of professional wrestling matches in the sports section in the 1930s because everyone knew they were fake - but for most of the 20th Century, both before and after, professional wrestling had more people watching it than any other combat sport because, by being fake, it could put on much better storylines. One in which Reyes would not become another also-ran in the legacy of Jon Jones unless he took a training accident at the wrong time.</p><p></p><p>... and I don't normally find myself on the pro-illusionism side of the debate. But then there's the way the professional wrestling business has more or less collapsed in the 21st Century.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 7918495, member: 87792"] Longer than a century - a century ago the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Dust_Trio']Gold Dust Trio[/URL] took professional wrestling and turned it from a corruption riddled thing that was sometimes a legitimate combat sport to something where the booking was obvious if you knew what to look for. This is relevant because despite the fact that endings in professional wrestling are pre-planned (sometimes but not always more is) character development can and does happen both within and outside the booking. In the case of the Reyes/Jones match you're talking about, there would be Consequences. An obviously corrupt referee (for those not aware the ref is always part of the cast in pro-wrestling) is a big thing and doesn't happen that often - but it does several things. The first is that it solidifies Jones as a heel - someone the audience is intended to boo the hell out of. Jones' character has developed. The second is that it solidifies Reyes as the underdog babyface that the crowd is intended to cheer. The third is that it brings that specific referee onto the stage as an actual character (most of them are intended to be the next thing to anonymous) and we wonder what his motivation is. And were this pro wrestling a ref cheating against you [I]would not be bad for the babyface/protagonist's career. [/I]I see there as being two basic pro-wrestling storylines going forward - and in both of them Reyes is the protagonist.[I][/I] 1: Reyes was actually out of his league both metaphorically and literally. He was the local wrestling league champion who was granted a challenge for the national (NWA) title. And our guy won - but that bastard no good cheating smarmy guy robbed him of the prize. So how good is our guy? We now know he's good enough to beat the national champion - and by extension that makes all the local guys challenging Reyes look good because they are taking on someone who can beat the best guy in the world. Rick Flair by the way was a master of wrestling anyone in any style in America and leaving the local crowd thinking that their guy could have won. Reyes is still only a local hero but is a bigger one than before. (This sort of booking went away largely with national TV, the breakup of the NWA, and the loss of the local territories). 2: Reyes was part of the same league and lost through a bribed ref. He is [I]pissed[/I] and is going to be spending a lot of time cutting promos on the champion as a no good low down bastard who has all the skill to make it to the top (you never run down your opponent's level of danger because it makes you look worse when you win or lose) and he wants a rematch. If he's at all good on the mic the crowd is completely behind Reyes because he was the peoples' champion and he was robbed. His complaint is legitimate. And this time to prevent a dirty cheating referee from robbing him the match can only be decided by knockout, pinfall, or submission. The ref will not otherwise intervene. After losing the first couple of rounds Jones brings a steel chair (or other foreign object) into the ring and proceeds to beat Reyes down with it - and the ref doesn't intervene because a disqualification is not a knockout, pinfall, or submission. Reyes loses by knockout after chair shot to the head. And Reyes is utterly pissed this time - and coming for the champion with blood in his eyes, but having beaten him twice the champion is not accepting any more challenges from him unless he can earn them (insert ridiculous task here). Reyes may be mad enough to turn heel at this point - or we have a perfect excuse to put our hero through some kind of gauntlet which he wins but takes an "injury" - or to put either his career or his hair on the line for the match. This time the match takes place in a steel cage so no foreign objects (except maybe knuckle dusters) can be brought in. And the crowd is white hot for the match and wanting to finally, [I]finally[/I] see Reyes win the title he's deserved twice before. He almost certainly does - but what has getting there cost him? And what sort of champion is he going to be? And this sums up my point neatly. He becomes just another also-ran in the legacy of Jon Jones [I]if and only if the results of the matches aren't pre-ordained[/I]. Pulling something as major as a corrupt referee in a pre-ordained match is adding a massive amount of fuel to the fire that is the feud. And people care more about characters and feuds than they do about simple win/loss ratios. The New York Times stopped reporting the results of professional wrestling matches in the sports section in the 1930s because everyone knew they were fake - but for most of the 20th Century, both before and after, professional wrestling had more people watching it than any other combat sport because, by being fake, it could put on much better storylines. One in which Reyes would not become another also-ran in the legacy of Jon Jones unless he took a training accident at the wrong time. ... and I don't normally find myself on the pro-illusionism side of the debate. But then there's the way the professional wrestling business has more or less collapsed in the 21st Century. [/QUOTE]
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