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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7919623" data-attributes="member: 6696971">[USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER]I don't have a ton of time right now, so if you're able to respond to this, I won't get a look at until afterwhile.Two things:1)&nbsp; I think something has gone slightly awry (I don't know where this happened, if I was involved with it or not).&nbsp; We're mashing together two different things:a)&nbsp; Character Arcs - A journey of a character that involves an inciting incident &gt; conflict/obstacles &gt; victory/setback/fall &gt; resolution and transformation of the character.b)&nbsp; (Substantively) Character-Driven Play (lead post premise) - The players, through advocating for their characters (both through the machinery of system and their related expression of character ethos/pathos), drive the fiction through a perpetual series of gamestates, until all thematic questions have been answered (and the the game ends).These are different things.I absolutely, 100 % agree in all ways that Character Arcs can emerge in games laden with (even fraught with) Force.&nbsp; Force is absolutely zero barrier to Character Arcs.&nbsp; The only thing that matters is that the journey above happens...doesn't matter how agency is distributed.The question I'm posing is how Force interacts with (b) above. So I guess my question with respect to your play anecdote above would be:Through the medium of their character, would a player have the capability (both authority and means to declare actions and not have that input nullified by GM) to challenge the conception of that prophecy and either undo its ability to become manifest and/or undo its revelation ?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7919623, member: 6696971"] [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] I don't have a ton of time right now, so if you're able to respond to this, I won't get a look at until afterwhile. Two things: 1) I think something has gone slightly awry (I don't know where this happened, if I was involved with it or not). We're mashing together two different things: a) [B]Character Arcs[/B] - A journey of a character that involves an inciting incident > conflict/obstacles > victory/setback/fall > resolution and transformation of the character. b) [B](Substantively) Character-Driven Play (lead post premise)[/B] - The players, through advocating for their characters (both through the machinery of system and their related expression of character ethos/pathos), drive the fiction through a perpetual series of gamestates, until all thematic questions have been answered (and the the game ends). These are different things. I absolutely, 100 % agree in all ways that [I]Character Arcs[/I] can emerge in games laden with (even fraught with) Force. Force is absolutely zero barrier to Character Arcs. The only thing that matters is that the journey above happens...doesn't matter how agency is distributed. The question I'm posing is [I]how Force interacts with (b) above.[/I] So I guess my question with respect to your play anecdote above would be: Through the medium of their character, would a player have the capability (both authority and means to declare actions and not have that input nullified by GM) to challenge the conception of that prophecy and either undo its ability to become manifest and/or undo its revelation ? [/QUOTE]

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