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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7921236" data-attributes="member: 42582">Maybe I already posted this - some of these threads are blurring together in my mind - but in any event it bears reiterating: GM force is not the same thing as GM narration or the GM establishing consequences. In every traditional RPG - every one that has a distinct &quot;GM&quot; role - the GM adds to the fiction, and often (even typically) more than any single other participant at the table.The notion of force is trying to get at a particular way of doing that - as [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] has described it, by ignoring or modifying player input. Or as I would typically describe it, by overriding or manipulating the (notional) action resolution mechanics. Although not synonymous descriptions, mine and Manbearcat's will mostly if not always overlap in the actual phenomena that they capture.Something that has not come up much directly in this thread, but is a very big deal for me (in part because it explains basically every unsatisfactory RPGIng experience I've ever had), is when the GM determines the outcomes of action resolution not by reference to the scene as framed, but by reference to off-screen elements that are not known to the players. It's mostly to cover this phenomenon that I include &quot;manipulating&quot; in my description - because it's not necessarily an overriding of action resolution in the strictest sense.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7921236, member: 42582"] Maybe I already posted this - some of these threads are blurring together in my mind - but in any event it bears reiterating: [I]GM force [/I]is not the same thing as [I]GM narration [/I]or [I]the GM establishing consequences[/I]. In every traditional RPG - every one that has a distinct "GM" role - the GM adds to the fiction, and often (even typically) more than any single other participant at the table. The notion of [I]force [/I]is trying to get at a particular way of doing that - as [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] has described it, by ignoring or modifying player input. Or as I would typically describe it, by overriding or manipulating the (notional) action resolution mechanics. Although not synonymous descriptions, mine and Manbearcat's will mostly if not always overlap in the actual phenomena that they capture. Something that has not come up much directly in this thread, but is a very big deal for me (in part because it explains basically every unsatisfactory RPGIng experience I've ever had), is when the GM determines the outcomes of action resolution not by reference to the scene as framed, but by reference to off-screen elements that are not known to the players. It's mostly to cover this phenomenon that I include "manipulating" in my description - because it's not necessarily an [I]overriding[/I] of action resolution in the strictest sense. [/QUOTE]

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