Beguilers and the Spell Compendium

[smootrk]

Is there an official (or semi-official) list of Beguiler spells that includes the resources in the Spell Compendium?

If not, has anyone created their own SC list of spells that are appropriate for Beguilers (from the PHB2)?



This thread is duplicated in the HouseRules forum. Not sure of the necessary location but this forum seems more appropriate.

 

[Bad Paper]

I assume that since the Spell Compendium came out before the beguiler class did, that the designers already took that resource into account.

 

[Sejs]

I assume that since the Spell Compendium came out before the beguiler class did, that the designers already took that resource into account.

With the exception of some of the Swift versions of spells, all the spells on both the Beguiler and Duskblade spell lists comes from either the PHB, or PHBII.

It could be they took the SC into account and decided just not to give either class any of the spells therein. Could also be that they didn't want to make it so you had to buy another book beyond the PHBII in order to use the class. *shrug*

 

[Piratecat]

Because the beguiler automatically knows all spells that he has access to, be very, very cautious about adding any new spells to his list. I would tend to only allow a player to "swap" spells onto the list, eliminating an existing spell in order to add a new one. That's certainly a house rule (and one I use for adding new cleric spells as well), but it would help maintain balance better than adding spells freely.

 

[Mouseferatu]

What the sea-going feline said.

Any of the new specialty casters--warmages, dread necromancers, beguilers--are very carefully balanced. The assumption that they know every spell on their list is balanced by the fact that their lists are limited.

I'd go farther than to say "be careful" adding new spells to any of these classes. I'd actually utter an almost blanket "don't do it." If you feel you must, go with PCat's suggestion and swap, don't just add.

 

[Glyfair]

Because the beguiler automatically knows all spells that he has access to, be very, very cautious about adding any new spells to his list. I would tend to only allow a player to "swap" spells onto the list, eliminating an existing spell in order to add a new one. That's certainly a house rule (and one I use for adding new cleric spells as well), but it would help maintain balance better than adding spells freely.

One other thing to remember is that Beguiler's have the Advanced Learning class feature that allows them to add spells to their spell list. They can use this to add spells from the Spell Compendium to their personal spell list (as long as they are illusion or enchantment spells).

That limits the spells added quite a bit (at most 5 at 20th level), which seems reasonably balanced.

 

[Victim]

On the other hand, the strongly themed lists of the warmage and beguiler often have large degrees of redundancy. So you add a new blast to the warmage, big deal. The whole reason those classes have spontaneous casting from a fairly wide list in the first place is because of the restrictive nature of their theme. As long as you stick to their core abilities, adding new spells shouldn't be too bad.

To use the warmage as an example (since I don't have PHB2), spells that are like Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and the Orbs are probably okay. Spells like the more fringe areas of their list such as Evard's or Mass Fireshield probably shouldn't be added to their list freely. Hailstones might be a good spell to add automactically, since it's just another ranged touch, Xd6 energy damage blast. Radiant Assault is a good canidate for Expanded Learning and not free access, since it adds a Will based attack which warmages otherwise lack. Similarly, Energy Spheres would also need Expanded Knowledge since it has defensive aspects AND works rather unconventional.

I'm not as familar with the Beguiler list, since much of it consists of new PHB2 spells, so I can't really provide much guidance there. PC's advice about swapping is a good idea too though.

 

[smootrk]

I am of the camp that believes that they (WotC) did not incorporate ANY of the spells from the Spell Compendium because they did not want to otherwise confuse or force folks to purchase an additional book (other than the core PH book and the PHB2 itself), not because spells from that source are inappropriate for use with Beguilers.

Some spells are likely to be perfect for the Beguiler class and I will likely look to incorporate a few into the list for Beguilers. However, I do appreciate the words of warning about balance in adding additional spells to their list. I do also believe that a class that is essentially a specialist in a certain range of spells (illusion & enchantment) would have access to the additional spells that fall into that category.

With that being said, to restate the question.... are there any expanded lists of spells for Beguilers that include the resources of the Spell Compendium? Official or not?

I intend to do my own double-check of the additional spells for balance, but want to have others' frames of reference to compare to my own thoughts.

 

[Glyfair]

I am of the camp that believes that they (WotC) did not incorporate ANY of the spells from the Spell Compendium because they did not want to otherwise confuse or force folks to purchase an additional book (other than the core PH book and the PHB2 itself), not because spells from that source are inappropriate for use with Beguilers.

I 100% agree with this. However, I also believe that's the main purpose of the Advanced Learning ability, to allow incorporation of spells from other sources without giving too many options to the class. I'd also consider adding some sort of feat that would allow an additional use of Advanced Learning, or something like that.

I also think the Warmage alternate ability from the PHBII would fit the Beguiler. Instead of using advanced learning, you can take any wizard/sorcerer spell and learn it at one level higher than normal (thus fireball would be a 4th level Beguiler spell).

 

[smootrk]

I also think the Warmage alternate ability from the PHBII would fit the Beguiler. Instead of using advanced learning, you can take any wizard/sorcerer spell and learn it at one level higher than normal (thus fireball would be a 4th level Beguiler spell).

I had not thought on this ability, but you are right. It does seem to be an appropriate ability to consider for the Beguiler - every bit as appropriate as its application to the Warmage.