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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Beguilers - too powerful?
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<blockquote data-quote="Zelc" data-source="post: 4188117" data-attributes="member: 40496"><p>Beguilers are not that inflexible. I suppose this isn't definitely a bonus in the Beguiler's favor, but one reasonable interpretation of UMD allows them to use Runestaves to increase their spell diversity. Even without Runestaves, here's a list of stuff they can do to contribute in combat vs. mindless opponents:</p><p></p><p>Level 1: Obscuring Mist, Silent Image</p><p>Level 2: Blur, Fog Cloud, <strong>Glitterdust</strong>, Invisibility, Minor Image, Silence</p><p>Level 3: Dispel Magic, Displacement, <strong>Haste</strong>, Invisibility Sphere, Legion of Sentinels, Major Image, <strong>Slow</strong></p><p>Level 4: <strong>Greater Invisibility</strong>, <strong>Solid Fog</strong></p><p>Level 5: None</p><p>Level 6: Greater Dispel Magic, Repulsion</p><p>Level 7: Mass Invisibility</p><p>Level 8: Mind Blank, Screen</p><p>Level 9: None</p><p></p><p>So especially at low levels, Beguilers have several really good ways to contribute against mindless opponents. Even at higher levels, these old methods age well (Haste and Solid Fog, for instance). Plus, there's the Advanced Learning stuff. Want a strong party buff to use when other options are weak? <strong>Heroics</strong> is a second level enchantment spell <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.</p><p></p><p>That's not to say Beguilers are overpowered. They still don't have access to some of the strongest spells, and they really can't abuse Time Stop very well. Still, they are definitely a strong class.</p><p></p><p>ETA: @Streamofthesky: Beguilers being better than Bards is pretty much OK, since Bards are a weak base class <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> without Prestige Classing. Also, there are certain skill-monkey builds like <a href="http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=633443" target="_blank">The Other Killer Gnome</a> and Swift Hunters that have great damage output (may require a substitution level or Able Learner, though). It's tough to compare Beguilers with these because their focus is so different; to use 4E speak, Beguilers are controllers while those other builds are strikers, and they are each very good at what they do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zelc, post: 4188117, member: 40496"] Beguilers are not that inflexible. I suppose this isn't definitely a bonus in the Beguiler's favor, but one reasonable interpretation of UMD allows them to use Runestaves to increase their spell diversity. Even without Runestaves, here's a list of stuff they can do to contribute in combat vs. mindless opponents: Level 1: Obscuring Mist, Silent Image Level 2: Blur, Fog Cloud, [B]Glitterdust[/B], Invisibility, Minor Image, Silence Level 3: Dispel Magic, Displacement, [b]Haste[/b], Invisibility Sphere, Legion of Sentinels, Major Image, [B]Slow[/B] Level 4: [B]Greater Invisibility[/B], [B]Solid Fog[/B] Level 5: None Level 6: Greater Dispel Magic, Repulsion Level 7: Mass Invisibility Level 8: Mind Blank, Screen Level 9: None So especially at low levels, Beguilers have several really good ways to contribute against mindless opponents. Even at higher levels, these old methods age well (Haste and Solid Fog, for instance). Plus, there's the Advanced Learning stuff. Want a strong party buff to use when other options are weak? [b]Heroics[/b] is a second level enchantment spell :). That's not to say Beguilers are overpowered. They still don't have access to some of the strongest spells, and they really can't abuse Time Stop very well. Still, they are definitely a strong class. ETA: @Streamofthesky: Beguilers being better than Bards is pretty much OK, since Bards are a weak base class :( without Prestige Classing. Also, there are certain skill-monkey builds like [url=http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=633443]The Other Killer Gnome[/url] and Swift Hunters that have great damage output (may require a substitution level or Able Learner, though). It's tough to compare Beguilers with these because their focus is so different; to use 4E speak, Beguilers are controllers while those other builds are strikers, and they are each very good at what they do. [/QUOTE]
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