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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2098506" data-attributes="member: 2011">I too think that Ectoplasmic Cocoon and Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass are potent. But, are they broken?It is not just the helplessness aspect of it which make them strong.They create a cocoon that has hardness and hit points, but does not allow anyone to do a Strength check to break out. A strong enough creature should have no problem eventually breaking out of an object with a set hardness.This is an obvious oversight since no other entangling type power/spell/ability can do this.However, I can understand it not allowing an Escape Artist check to get out based on its description.Btw, Sleep spell makes a character who can be affected by it more helpless (cannot use conscious mental powers) than Ectoplasmic Cocoon.And yes, there are very few spells (Ghoul Touch and Holy Word, et. al.) that can make a character helpless and those have much shorter durations.But, there are many spells that can incapacitate or kill a character outright if s/he fails a save. There are poisons that can incapacitate a character if s/he fails a save.At 6th level, there is Flesh to Stone. It only affects one creature, but there are NO mundane ways to get the character back and it has a permanent duration. With Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass, you can at least break people out or wait until it expires and it is 7th level as opposed to 6th.Potent, yes. Broken, probably not. And the main reason it is not broken is because there are mundane ways for others to get you out of it. And, I would also house rule ways to break out with massive strength.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 2098506, member: 2011"] I too think that Ectoplasmic Cocoon and Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass are potent. But, are they broken? It is not just the helplessness aspect of it which make them strong. They create a cocoon that has hardness and hit points, but does not allow anyone to do a Strength check to break out. A strong enough creature should have no problem eventually breaking out of an object with a set hardness. This is an obvious oversight since no other entangling type power/spell/ability can do this. However, I can understand it not allowing an Escape Artist check to get out based on its description. Btw, Sleep spell makes a character who can be affected by it more helpless (cannot use conscious mental powers) than Ectoplasmic Cocoon. And yes, there are very few spells (Ghoul Touch and Holy Word, et. al.) that can make a character helpless and those have much shorter durations. But, there are many spells that can incapacitate or kill a character outright if s/he fails a save. There are poisons that can incapacitate a character if s/he fails a save. At 6th level, there is Flesh to Stone. It only affects one creature, but there are NO mundane ways to get the character back and it has a permanent duration. With Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass, you can at least break people out or wait until it expires and it is 7th level as opposed to 6th. Potent, yes. Broken, probably not. And the main reason it is not broken is because there are mundane ways for others to get you out of it. And, I would also house rule ways to break out with massive strength. [/QUOTE]

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