Beholder CR

[palin]

I was wondering what everyone thought about a Beholder's CR of 13. Do people feel it is too high, or too low and why?

I'm thinking of using this monster in an upcoming game (players forget I said this and didn't want to make the eventual 'end encounter' too hard as it will also contain other monsters. The party is 10-11 th level and will probably gain 1 more level between now and then (depending on how they deal with a particuarly nasty Death Knight Variant)

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Their hit points seem a little low to warrant such a high CR, but their powers are pretty awsome.

I know we took one on the other day, and our archer destroyed it in two rounds. A wizard can kill an unprepared beholder even faster. I am not sure. In certain circumstances, they can certainly be formiddable, but seem way to easy to kill IMO.

 

[Berk]

Their cr seems a bit off, but it all depends on the party make up and all. Remeber in Ross' game when we were 10th level we slaughtered that beholder. But then again, in my game in Ravenloft remember what happened? *evil grin* We were 17th level and Solaris got petrified. But then again that was a beholder mage that came in in the last round after Rich's char got turned to stone that started to wipe the floor with us. =op But anyways you know how I feel about CR's. =op

 

[the Jester]

I think it's about right; I ran a shadow beholder (template from the MotP) and it seemed about CR 14...

 

[RangerWickett]

First things first, the beholder will be levitating out of reach of melee. It has a very high Intelligence and Wisdom, so it will recognize a spellcaster at the first sign of mumbling. Always assume it readies an action to turn its antimagic eye toward spellcasters, while the other eyes take out other foes. If it sees someone with a bow, it will keep its telekinesis eye ready for that person to deflect the arrows (it should be easy with that much force; it could even shoot them back at the archer). Then it will attempt to charm and scare off the archer.

Then the next round, once it has cancelled an attempted spell, it will fire off the death ray, petrification ray, and inflict wounds ray at the wizard, while continuing to try to charm or put to sleep warriors. The cleric it doesn't have to worry about as much, since they tend to lack ranged attack spells, and usually aren't big archers. If they are, it can always just block the arrows with telekinesis again. If anyone starts flying, that person will be antimagicked to the floor.

With the thing's mad spot check, it should never be surprised, and so should always be considered to start combat with a readied action. It should only ever use its bite if it is being grappled by a wizard with an antimagic field or something similar.

They're CR 13 easily, if not higher. I personally would've given them fewer instant kill abilities and raised their HP and AC a bit to compensate. Maybe replace disintegrate with a fire beam (requiring a Reflex save), and the petrification beam with an offensive teleport spell to remove the person from combat without killing them.

Also, if you're going to have them fight a beholder, have it be underground, in a cave complex the beholder has designed. Using its disintegrate beam, it will cut numerous vertical shafts, with a few interconnecting horizontal shafts. Each shaft will have many narrow holes carved through it, so the lair resembles a block of Swiss cheese that someone cored out vertically. The eye tyrant can keep track of all the various passages, and can snipe from them if it sees a foe.

 

[Berk]

First things first, the beholder will be levitating out of reach of melee. It has a very high Intelligence and Wisdom, so it will recognize a spellcaster at the first sign of mumbling. Always assume it readies an action to turn its antimagic eye toward spellcasters, while the other eyes take out other foes. If it sees someone with a bow, it will keep its telekinesis eye ready for that person to deflect the arrows (it should be easy with that much force; it could even shoot them back at the archer). Then it will attempt to charm and scare off the archer.

Then the next round, once it has cancelled an attempted spell, it will fire off the death ray, petrification ray, and inflict wounds ray at the wizard, while continuing to try to charm or put to sleep warriors. The cleric it doesn't have to worry about as much, since they tend to lack ranged attack spells, and usually aren't big archers. If they are, it can always just block the arrows wi

th telekinesis again. If anyone starts flying, that person will be antimagicked to the floor.

With the thing's mad spot check, it should never be surprised, and so should always be considered to start combat with a readied action. It should only ever use its bite if it is being grappled by a wizard with an antimagic field or something similar.

They're CR 13 easily, if not higher. I personally would've given them fewer instant kill abilities and raised their HP and AC a bit to compensate. Maybe replace disintegrate with a fire beam (requiring a Reflex save), and the petrification beam with an offensive teleport spell to remove the person from combat without killing them.

Also, if you're going to have them fight a beholder, have it be underground, in a cave complex the beholder has designed. Using its disintegrate beam, it will cut numerous vertical shafts, with a few interconnecting horizontal shafts. Each shaft will have many narrow holes carved through it, so the lair resembles a block of Swiss cheese that someone cored out vertically. The eye tyrant can keep track of all the various passages, and can snipe from them if it sees a foe.

That's a lot of readied actions for one round. =op And then to do more actions in the same round that the beholder readied an action is just amazing. =o) Anyways though, good tactics, just not all possible at the same time since you can only ready one action a round and don't do anything until that action and then can only do that action. But good tactics for everything else besides that. =o)

 

[RangerWickett]

I would rule that since a beholder can conceivably fire all 10 eyes rays in the same round that it moves 20 feet and bites, that the eyes act independently of the rest of the body. The body itself readies the action to block spellcasters with antimagic, while the eyes zap away willy-nilly.

 

[gfunk]

IMC, Beholders are used to devastating effect when combined with melee beasts. We actually ran into the Beholder in the Underdark and its anti-magic cone knocked out or magical darkvision. We couldn't see for crap and his retainers waded in layed a world of hurt on us. But in our case, our PCs are pretty spell-caster heavy so this is the ideal tactic. If your party has a Barbarian/Frenzied Beserker or a Fighter then a Beholder can probably use a better tactic.

If you are interested in seeing how a Beholder put the smack down on our party, check out my Story Hour,

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33249

 

[AuraSeer]

The beholder is one of those monsters that depends heavily on circumstance. IMO, the listed CR of 13 assumes at least that the monster gets to choose the terrain. If it gets an ambush, the surprise round will involve a lot of saving throws and probably a downed PC or two. But if it ever gets caught in melee range, or if spellcasters manage to avoid its antimagic, it's liable to drop in two rounds or less.

Its low Fortitude save leaves it vulnerable to save-or-lose spells like Disintegrate or Polymorph Other. Its low Reflex save, together with its relatively low hit point total, will get it toasted by a single Maximized Fireball. Its ranged touch AC is only 9.

A party that can cast its own Antimagic Field will totally shut down a beholder. Its eye rays become useless, and advancing to melee would be suicide; all it can do is hide or flee, and hope that its max of 40' per round is enough to outdistance the archers.

If the battle happens in an area where the beholder can use effective tactics-- staying up out of melee range, and choosing which PCs are caught in its antimagic-- then CR 13 is probably about right. But out in the open, or if it's spotted from a distance, it's significantly less challenging.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

IMO, the listed CR of 13 assumes at least that the monster gets to choose the terrain.

Not just that. With disintegrate at will, it gets to have already carved the terrain.