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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 9091691" data-attributes="member: 7026594"><p>You could express that same sentiment about spells or other character abilities being regained every day, though. As Voadam pointed out with his 3E Barbarian example, this wasn't really a NEW concept to 4th. It was just a faster-paced version of a mechanic we accept in 5E right now. And a much faster-paced extrapolation of mechanics which have existed since 1974.</p><p></p><p>I might instead write "Here the game provided as well resources that would be regained through a shorter passage of time than the traditional overnight rest, attempting to better emulate the pacing of action and fantasy adventure movies."</p><p></p><p>There's not exactly a lot in the source fiction to support the idea of daily restoration of powers, let's bear in mind. That's just a game conceit ("the needs of the game engine") which we've accepted for many years, and which sparked debate in the 70s. Labeling it a Long Rest in contrast to a new Short Rest concept doesn't make it any less gamist or the new mechanic more so. The Adventuring Day is no less artificial a concept than The Encounter.</p><p></p><p>The Short Rest of course is not the only way in which 4E game attempted to emulate the fiction of action movies better. The Second Wind mechanic, for a classic example (now in 5E a Fighter-specific ability, where in 4E something everyone could do) of that moment in a fight scene when the protagonist pauses, takes a step back, wipes the sweat off their brow, and shakes off some of the pain of whatever beating they've recently taken.</p><p></p><p>And of course it's not the first time D&D changed to try to pick up the pace and allow faster-moving adventures. <a href="http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2018/03/healing-through-ages.html" target="_blank">Every single edition from 0E to 4E accelerated the pace of natural healing,</a> for example, to allow for a faster pace of action.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I see this as another example of 5E being a compromise edition, trying to retain some of what worked in 4E without alienating older fans as much as 4E did.</p><p></p><p>To Snarf's point, 4E did take the lid off the game mechanic more and give the DM more explicit advice about pacing and encounter design. 5E does much the same thing in its DMG telling us that the game is balanced with the expectation that PCs will get two Short Rests most days, roughly evenly spaced during the Adventuring Day, which is expected to comprise roughly 6-8 Medium or Hard encounters.</p><p></p><p>But there's nothing inherently more realistic about resting for five minutes vs resting for an hour. They're equally arbitrary. It's mostly just a question of which works better for our table and feels more verisimilitudinous for the world we envision. Voadam opined that an hour is much more of an impingement on his sense of disbelief than five minutes. YMMV.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 9091691, member: 7026594"] You could express that same sentiment about spells or other character abilities being regained every day, though. As Voadam pointed out with his 3E Barbarian example, this wasn't really a NEW concept to 4th. It was just a faster-paced version of a mechanic we accept in 5E right now. And a much faster-paced extrapolation of mechanics which have existed since 1974. I might instead write "Here the game provided as well resources that would be regained through a shorter passage of time than the traditional overnight rest, attempting to better emulate the pacing of action and fantasy adventure movies." There's not exactly a lot in the source fiction to support the idea of daily restoration of powers, let's bear in mind. That's just a game conceit ("the needs of the game engine") which we've accepted for many years, and which sparked debate in the 70s. Labeling it a Long Rest in contrast to a new Short Rest concept doesn't make it any less gamist or the new mechanic more so. The Adventuring Day is no less artificial a concept than The Encounter. The Short Rest of course is not the only way in which 4E game attempted to emulate the fiction of action movies better. The Second Wind mechanic, for a classic example (now in 5E a Fighter-specific ability, where in 4E something everyone could do) of that moment in a fight scene when the protagonist pauses, takes a step back, wipes the sweat off their brow, and shakes off some of the pain of whatever beating they've recently taken. And of course it's not the first time D&D changed to try to pick up the pace and allow faster-moving adventures. [URL='http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2018/03/healing-through-ages.html']Every single edition from 0E to 4E accelerated the pace of natural healing,[/URL] for example, to allow for a faster pace of action. I see this as another example of 5E being a compromise edition, trying to retain some of what worked in 4E without alienating older fans as much as 4E did. To Snarf's point, 4E did take the lid off the game mechanic more and give the DM more explicit advice about pacing and encounter design. 5E does much the same thing in its DMG telling us that the game is balanced with the expectation that PCs will get two Short Rests most days, roughly evenly spaced during the Adventuring Day, which is expected to comprise roughly 6-8 Medium or Hard encounters. But there's nothing inherently more realistic about resting for five minutes vs resting for an hour. They're equally arbitrary. It's mostly just a question of which works better for our table and feels more verisimilitudinous for the world we envision. Voadam opined that an hour is much more of an impingement on his sense of disbelief than five minutes. YMMV. [/QUOTE]
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