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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 9091837" data-attributes="member: 7026594"><p>I think this contrast of tight design and writing vs. loose is probably at the root of why 4E's encounter design and CR systems are widely acknowledged as functional and praised, where 5E's work decently but also get a lot of complaints and questions.</p><p></p><p>5E harkens back to 2E in that way. 2E tried to be all things to all gamers and wound up with a wishy-washy DMG and elements of design which clashed with one another. Basic D&D-style 3d6 down the line for ability scores but without point swapping or Basic D&D's lower, more accessible thresholds for bonuses. Dumping gold for XP in favor of increased monster and goal-based XP resulting in much slower advancement while retaining 1E's lethality. I think 5E is a much more successful design than 2E overall, but it shares some of the same issues.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, it was nice and clear.</p><p></p><p>"x rounds per recharge" also reminds me of the experimental classes in Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, from late in 3.5 when they were clearly playtesting some concepts for 4th. I played and enjoyed all of those classes. The Crusader, Swordsage, and Warblade. Now that you mention that, I remember that each of them had a different recharge mechanic for its abilities.</p><p></p><p><strong>Crusaders </strong>got a random selection of two of their special maneuvers to use at the beginning of each fight (as flashes of divine inspiration), and reset the whole lot every four rounds.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sword Sages</strong> readied all of theirs with five minutes of meditation and once one was used it was gone until the end of the encounter, but they could refresh one mid-fight as a full-round action to concentrate and meditate.</p><p></p><p><strong>Warblades </strong>readied all of their maneuvers with five minutes of exercise and once one was used it was gone until the end of the encounter, and they could refresh ALL of theirs as a Swift action after making a single attack or a weapon flourish, but they got a more limited number and selection than Sword Sages, and fewer other cool abilities.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 9091837, member: 7026594"] I think this contrast of tight design and writing vs. loose is probably at the root of why 4E's encounter design and CR systems are widely acknowledged as functional and praised, where 5E's work decently but also get a lot of complaints and questions. 5E harkens back to 2E in that way. 2E tried to be all things to all gamers and wound up with a wishy-washy DMG and elements of design which clashed with one another. Basic D&D-style 3d6 down the line for ability scores but without point swapping or Basic D&D's lower, more accessible thresholds for bonuses. Dumping gold for XP in favor of increased monster and goal-based XP resulting in much slower advancement while retaining 1E's lethality. I think 5E is a much more successful design than 2E overall, but it shares some of the same issues. Yes, it was nice and clear. "x rounds per recharge" also reminds me of the experimental classes in Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, from late in 3.5 when they were clearly playtesting some concepts for 4th. I played and enjoyed all of those classes. The Crusader, Swordsage, and Warblade. Now that you mention that, I remember that each of them had a different recharge mechanic for its abilities. [B]Crusaders [/B]got a random selection of two of their special maneuvers to use at the beginning of each fight (as flashes of divine inspiration), and reset the whole lot every four rounds. [B]Sword Sages[/B] readied all of theirs with five minutes of meditation and once one was used it was gone until the end of the encounter, but they could refresh one mid-fight as a full-round action to concentrate and meditate. [B]Warblades [/B]readied all of their maneuvers with five minutes of exercise and once one was used it was gone until the end of the encounter, and they could refresh ALL of theirs as a Swift action after making a single attack or a weapon flourish, but they got a more limited number and selection than Sword Sages, and fewer other cool abilities. [/QUOTE]
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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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