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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9098950" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think your examples are illustrations of bad design. Which fits with [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER]'s remarks, upthread, about the poor quality of 4e modules. There also seems to be a high degree of GMs not actually following the rules, which - as I've quoted twice no in this thread - don't say these skills only.The best way of thinking about notes for a skill challenge is like a tactics section for a combat encounter. It is ideas on what to say and do, as GM, if things unfold in a certain anticipable way. It's not a script.This seems like a more subtle instance of the same problems of design and GMing.In a skill challenge, the GM has to present the players with a reason to declare actions for their PCs. That is, the GM's narration has to make it clear that something bad is going to happen, adverse to these PCs' interests, if they don't act. In the case of your forest example, the GM has to actually narrate the hazards that are impeding your progress. So if you don't act, you won't be able to go on!That framing is also what, then draws the different players into the challenge. In a combat, we don't ask why the wizard is getting involved, dragging down the fighter - we get the wizard involved by making them the target of threats, and providing opportunities for them to do useful things. A skill challenge is no different, when we're talking at this level of abstraction.</blockquote>

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