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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 9099890" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>Which doesn't apply to the back-and-forth that you and I are having; I was talking about damage on a miss, and as best I recall I didn't make any mention regarding percentage-based healing in 4E; I <em>asked</em> about it specifically because I wasn't aware. To which you made a snarky comment that was, quite frankly, uncalled for.</p><p></p><p>I agree that PC or NPC is not a property of the character in the fiction, and yet it's treated as if it was when the PC has access to options that NPCs don't, by virtue of nothing other than the fact that they <em>are</em> a PC. If the NPCs are built differently, and don't have access to the same powers that the PCs have, then if we accept the premise that those powers have an in-game aspect which the characters can recognize (on some level, at least), then their being PCs is making an in-character difference...but in a way that has no aspect which is recognized in the narrative, creating a disconnect.</p><p></p><p>Right, but it's not that they "just happen" to be that way. They have powers and abilities that make them that way, which no one else has access to. And yet, in-and-of themselves, there's no reason for this. Certainly, you can invent a reason for why they'd be so different (just look at the <em>isekai</em> sub-genre of fiction), but in-and-of itself the game doesn't present a reason for this, which means that those of us who want to bridge that gap need to do it ourselves.</p><p></p><p>Again, it's not "trouble understanding," it's discomfort with the fact that 4E is so casual about dismissing and altering the concept of the narrative connection between the in-game results of the mechanics being used. Calling it an "imposition" strikes me as mischaracterizing the entirely reasonable expectation that such a thing would be a central conceit, if not for an RPG in general, then at least for one calling itself Dungeons & Dragons, which prior to that was entirely comfortable playing up that connection (and at least trying, in my opinion, to obfuscate instances of it not quite being able to bridge a gap between the fluff and the crunch).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 9099890, member: 8461"] Which doesn't apply to the back-and-forth that you and I are having; I was talking about damage on a miss, and as best I recall I didn't make any mention regarding percentage-based healing in 4E; I [i]asked[/i] about it specifically because I wasn't aware. To which you made a snarky comment that was, quite frankly, uncalled for. I agree that PC or NPC is not a property of the character in the fiction, and yet it's treated as if it was when the PC has access to options that NPCs don't, by virtue of nothing other than the fact that they [i]are[/i] a PC. If the NPCs are built differently, and don't have access to the same powers that the PCs have, then if we accept the premise that those powers have an in-game aspect which the characters can recognize (on some level, at least), then their being PCs is making an in-character difference...but in a way that has no aspect which is recognized in the narrative, creating a disconnect. Right, but it's not that they "just happen" to be that way. They have powers and abilities that make them that way, which no one else has access to. And yet, in-and-of themselves, there's no reason for this. Certainly, you can invent a reason for why they'd be so different (just look at the [i]isekai[/i] sub-genre of fiction), but in-and-of itself the game doesn't present a reason for this, which means that those of us who want to bridge that gap need to do it ourselves. Again, it's not "trouble understanding," it's discomfort with the fact that 4E is so casual about dismissing and altering the concept of the narrative connection between the in-game results of the mechanics being used. Calling it an "imposition" strikes me as mischaracterizing the entirely reasonable expectation that such a thing would be a central conceit, if not for an RPG in general, then at least for one calling itself Dungeons & Dragons, which prior to that was entirely comfortable playing up that connection (and at least trying, in my opinion, to obfuscate instances of it not quite being able to bridge a gap between the fluff and the crunch). [/QUOTE]
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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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