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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 9099942" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>And yet no one else in the entire game world has those traits? Has a comparable backstory? No one else is capable of those feats or abilities? What makes that warrior special, from an in-game standpoint? The answer is that the game doesn't answer this as a default; it's something the player(s) and GM must bring to the table. Which is fine, but represents a disconnect in the narrative that they then have to bridge, as opposed to the game doing that on its own.</p><p></p><p>I disagree strongly. One of the things I dislike about 4E is that it inverts Gygax's ideas and moves further away from them, as per the same quote upthread. Gary never envisioned PCs spontaneously regaining large fractions of their hit points through a non-magical "second wind," and his one-minute combat round where the entire interplay of attack rolls were abstracted is not at all comparable to the "damage on a miss" idea of 4E, since in 1E a character that failed all of their attack rolls would in no way result in an opponent losing hit points.</p><p></p><p>And really, that's why the idea of "the narrative and the mechanics will (try to) work together" is indeed the central conceit of so many TTRPGs, especially D&D; that by modeling what you're attempting, the rules intuitively help to flesh out both what's happening and the game world around you, rather than being something where they generate a result and then you need to figure out how it works from an in-character standpoint.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 9099942, member: 8461"] And yet no one else in the entire game world has those traits? Has a comparable backstory? No one else is capable of those feats or abilities? What makes that warrior special, from an in-game standpoint? The answer is that the game doesn't answer this as a default; it's something the player(s) and GM must bring to the table. Which is fine, but represents a disconnect in the narrative that they then have to bridge, as opposed to the game doing that on its own. I disagree strongly. One of the things I dislike about 4E is that it inverts Gygax's ideas and moves further away from them, as per the same quote upthread. Gary never envisioned PCs spontaneously regaining large fractions of their hit points through a non-magical "second wind," and his one-minute combat round where the entire interplay of attack rolls were abstracted is not at all comparable to the "damage on a miss" idea of 4E, since in 1E a character that failed all of their attack rolls would in no way result in an opponent losing hit points. And really, that's why the idea of "the narrative and the mechanics will (try to) work together" is indeed the central conceit of so many TTRPGs, especially D&D; that by modeling what you're attempting, the rules intuitively help to flesh out both what's happening and the game world around you, rather than being something where they generate a result and then you need to figure out how it works from an in-character standpoint. [/QUOTE]
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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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