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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9100190" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>I think there's some rather big differences there.</p><p></p><p>1. There is no kill the orc skill or action. Contrast with the task level skill system in 4e, where a single skill check often does open a chest, break down a door, persuade the local noble to grant you a favor, etc.</p><p></p><p>2. What's not clear on the player side is why sometimes things are resolved with a single check and other times they are resolved in an entirely different way. There's no proper reason for why the skill check mechanic was used in one instance and the skill challenge in the other.</p><p></p><p>3. The fictional explanations for why an attack hasn't killed an orc yet are trivial, you missed, orc deflected, orc was barely grazed, etc. The fictional explanations involved in any kind of interesting skill challenge require a much greater amount of fictional 'change' - otherwise you just end up with the thief picking lock on the chest, honoring that and yet finding some reason the contents of the chest are still out of reach - most of which aren't going to be particularly interesting fictional reasons - The most obvious example would be a locked chest inside the chest- but that kind of on the fly complication is the antithesis to most D&D play - where an impartial referee is supposed to know the obstacle or be able to extrapolate details for it and then make rulings about what the players are doing to overcome it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9100190, member: 6795602"] I think there's some rather big differences there. 1. There is no kill the orc skill or action. Contrast with the task level skill system in 4e, where a single skill check often does open a chest, break down a door, persuade the local noble to grant you a favor, etc. 2. What's not clear on the player side is why sometimes things are resolved with a single check and other times they are resolved in an entirely different way. There's no proper reason for why the skill check mechanic was used in one instance and the skill challenge in the other. 3. The fictional explanations for why an attack hasn't killed an orc yet are trivial, you missed, orc deflected, orc was barely grazed, etc. The fictional explanations involved in any kind of interesting skill challenge require a much greater amount of fictional 'change' - otherwise you just end up with the thief picking lock on the chest, honoring that and yet finding some reason the contents of the chest are still out of reach - most of which aren't going to be particularly interesting fictional reasons - The most obvious example would be a locked chest inside the chest- but that kind of on the fly complication is the antithesis to most D&D play - where an impartial referee is supposed to know the obstacle or be able to extrapolate details for it and then make rulings about what the players are doing to overcome it. [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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