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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Micah Sweet" data-source="post: 9100651" data-attributes="member: 6747251"><p>First of all, I don't hate 4e, it just has a lot of aspects I dislike that make it not the game for me. Hate is far too strong a word.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, I engage in a lot of threads about game theory on this forum. My own leanings are heavily simulationist, which I know is not to everyone's taste. In some ways, what I want out of gaming is further away from the WotC mainstream than what the narrative advocates want.</p><p></p><p>I respect other people's game preferences, but what I don't like is the persistent idea that narrative games are a better way to play, and that 4e was a tragic victim of a terrible D&D fan base not enlightened enough to give it the screaming success it deserved, as if there's a straight value path that leads to 4e and narrative gaming, and those who disagree are holding up the evolution of RPGs in favor of obsolete, antiquated ideas.</p><p></p><p>4e has fundamental design priorities that make it incompatible with the desired playstyle of many D&D fans, both then and now. For those to whom it was compatible, an <em>enormous </em>aura of defensiveness surrounds their every post, such that expressing any opinion of 4e that isn't a rave is taken as a personal attack.</p><p></p><p>Now I know not everyone in favor of 4e believes that, but the attitude is IMO pervasive, and difficult for me not to respond to. I'm sure I'm being overly sensitive regarding negative comments about my own playstyle as well (although I've never told anyone that their playstyle doesn't really exist), and for that, and for any feathers I've ruffled unduly, I apologize.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Micah Sweet, post: 9100651, member: 6747251"] First of all, I don't hate 4e, it just has a lot of aspects I dislike that make it not the game for me. Hate is far too strong a word. Secondly, I engage in a lot of threads about game theory on this forum. My own leanings are heavily simulationist, which I know is not to everyone's taste. In some ways, what I want out of gaming is further away from the WotC mainstream than what the narrative advocates want. I respect other people's game preferences, but what I don't like is the persistent idea that narrative games are a better way to play, and that 4e was a tragic victim of a terrible D&D fan base not enlightened enough to give it the screaming success it deserved, as if there's a straight value path that leads to 4e and narrative gaming, and those who disagree are holding up the evolution of RPGs in favor of obsolete, antiquated ideas. 4e has fundamental design priorities that make it incompatible with the desired playstyle of many D&D fans, both then and now. For those to whom it was compatible, an [I]enormous [/I]aura of defensiveness surrounds their every post, such that expressing any opinion of 4e that isn't a rave is taken as a personal attack. Now I know not everyone in favor of 4e believes that, but the attitude is IMO pervasive, and difficult for me not to respond to. I'm sure I'm being overly sensitive regarding negative comments about my own playstyle as well (although I've never told anyone that their playstyle doesn't really exist), and for that, and for any feathers I've ruffled unduly, I apologize. [/QUOTE]
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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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