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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9102305" data-attributes="member: 7040941"><p>The more I keep reading 4e for myself the more I think its only real issue is that it existed before its audience could get into TTRPGs. </p><p></p><p>Say what you will about the cultural problems around it (nuking FR lore, the license nuking, etc), but I liken it to being something that straddled the same kind of line I think people around my age tend to straddle. </p><p></p><p>I like to describe that line as growing up on both sides of 9/11. Or, less crass, both sides of the iPhone. </p><p></p><p>On the one hand, I grew up in an era where technology required effort and its rewards developed a feedback loop for learning, even if you had no real teachers other than what you could figure out how to search for on the internet. In terms of gaming, this era leads down a similar path. Morrowind was one of the first games I ever played, and the first game even partially resembling DND i had ever interacted with. And its a game thats well known for requiring some effort to play for great reward. </p><p></p><p>But, on the other, I also grew up in an era where things became cleaner, easier, faster. The rigmarole was cut, and fun was easy to have and in the best examples, skill wasn't washed away. </p><p></p><p>And I think these experiences are what came to form my preferences, which often go for games that are exceptionally deep but easy to dink around in. Full fledged simulators like DCS World or (to some degree) Kerbal Space Program are my bread and butter, and even in the RPG space, I find myself desiring games that don't make it a matter of trading off depth for accessibility. Its why I still like to come back to Runescape every now and again (when Im up for more grinding), and why when I play something like Skyrim, I find myself burning out just trying to mod it to where I want it before Ive even played it for 5 minutes. </p><p></p><p>And these in turn all influenced my tabletop preferences. I find myself appreciating the grittier nature of older games and the more high-octane fun generation of newer games, and I inevitably always gravitate towards the best marriage of both. </p><p></p><p>My impression of 4e is that its a game that fits that bill (though can still be better), and I don't think its a surprise my own game has developed along these lines.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emberashh, post: 9102305, member: 7040941"] The more I keep reading 4e for myself the more I think its only real issue is that it existed before its audience could get into TTRPGs. Say what you will about the cultural problems around it (nuking FR lore, the license nuking, etc), but I liken it to being something that straddled the same kind of line I think people around my age tend to straddle. I like to describe that line as growing up on both sides of 9/11. Or, less crass, both sides of the iPhone. On the one hand, I grew up in an era where technology required effort and its rewards developed a feedback loop for learning, even if you had no real teachers other than what you could figure out how to search for on the internet. In terms of gaming, this era leads down a similar path. Morrowind was one of the first games I ever played, and the first game even partially resembling DND i had ever interacted with. And its a game thats well known for requiring some effort to play for great reward. But, on the other, I also grew up in an era where things became cleaner, easier, faster. The rigmarole was cut, and fun was easy to have and in the best examples, skill wasn't washed away. And I think these experiences are what came to form my preferences, which often go for games that are exceptionally deep but easy to dink around in. Full fledged simulators like DCS World or (to some degree) Kerbal Space Program are my bread and butter, and even in the RPG space, I find myself desiring games that don't make it a matter of trading off depth for accessibility. Its why I still like to come back to Runescape every now and again (when Im up for more grinding), and why when I play something like Skyrim, I find myself burning out just trying to mod it to where I want it before Ive even played it for 5 minutes. And these in turn all influenced my tabletop preferences. I find myself appreciating the grittier nature of older games and the more high-octane fun generation of newer games, and I inevitably always gravitate towards the best marriage of both. My impression of 4e is that its a game that fits that bill (though can still be better), and I don't think its a surprise my own game has developed along these lines. [/QUOTE]
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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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