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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9197978" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>To me, this was the most frustrating thing about the shift in editions.</p><p></p><p>People weren't actually bothered by the changes 4e made. It was how those changes were presented that was the problem. @Bill91 says it straight up here. The fact that the rules are changed - the skills are gone - but that's okay. WotC didn't say mean things about someone's game, so, it's perfectly fine to make these changes. I've ran this flag up more than a few times - the changes from 4e to 5e are not substantive by and large. The only real difference between 4e and 5e is how they presented the game. </p><p></p><p>Of course, the primary lesson that WotC appears to have learned from the whole 4e thing is that they have zero interest in being up front with the fandom anymore. They will make changes, alter lots of stuff, rewrite lore, do whatever they want, and so long as they don't actually TELL people that's what they're doing, everyone seems to be perfectly fine with it. But, put out things like those two dev books from before 4e came out, or have the devs write blog posts or <em>horror</em> actually directly interact with fandom? That's not going to happen anymore. Why would it? If they directly say, "Hey, we're taking out these skills because they're not really useful in the game and no one seems to actually be using them" they get absolutely crucified.</p><p></p><p>But if they strip out the same material and don't tell anyone? Maybe throw the tiniest bones with a couple of throwaway lines in some backgrounds? Fandom is perfectly happy.</p><p></p><p>And people wonder why WotC refuses to actually directly engage with fans anymore. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9197978, member: 22779"] To me, this was the most frustrating thing about the shift in editions. People weren't actually bothered by the changes 4e made. It was how those changes were presented that was the problem. @Bill91 says it straight up here. The fact that the rules are changed - the skills are gone - but that's okay. WotC didn't say mean things about someone's game, so, it's perfectly fine to make these changes. I've ran this flag up more than a few times - the changes from 4e to 5e are not substantive by and large. The only real difference between 4e and 5e is how they presented the game. Of course, the primary lesson that WotC appears to have learned from the whole 4e thing is that they have zero interest in being up front with the fandom anymore. They will make changes, alter lots of stuff, rewrite lore, do whatever they want, and so long as they don't actually TELL people that's what they're doing, everyone seems to be perfectly fine with it. But, put out things like those two dev books from before 4e came out, or have the devs write blog posts or [I]horror[/I] actually directly interact with fandom? That's not going to happen anymore. Why would it? If they directly say, "Hey, we're taking out these skills because they're not really useful in the game and no one seems to actually be using them" they get absolutely crucified. But if they strip out the same material and don't tell anyone? Maybe throw the tiniest bones with a couple of throwaway lines in some backgrounds? Fandom is perfectly happy. And people wonder why WotC refuses to actually directly engage with fans anymore. :erm: [/QUOTE]
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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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