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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9199572" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>Enjoyment is subjective. Not everyone can be pleased. If I’m going to design a game, or anything really, I’m going to try and design it well. If I design a good game, then it will appeal to people. </p><p></p><p>What I’m not going to set out to do is please everyone. </p><p></p><p>I could rank all the variations of D&D with which I’m familiar, and then rank them according to how well designed they are. Then I can rank them according to how much I enjoyed them. Those rankings wouldn’t be the same, for a variety of reasons, many of which have little to nothing to do with design. </p><p></p><p>But I don’t claim that my enjoyment of a game makes it a better designed game. </p><p></p><p>I prefer when designers make the game they want to. When they have the vision to make decisions and go with what makes sense for the design of the game. Not when they set out to appease as many vocal folks as they can. </p><p></p><p>I think that leads to watered down games. The edges get softened, the risks are removed for safer decisions. </p><p></p><p>Bringing it back to 4e… I think as a game it’s clearly superior to 5e. Yet I’ve played much more 5e than 4e, for the reasons I’ve already stated. It’s a serviceable version of D&D. But there’s very little about it that stands out. Very little that’s unique to this edition that didn’t come from a prior one. Very little innovation. </p><p></p><p>I still have my old books from past editions, and those I don’t have are easily obtained these days. I can play any of those games. So if they’re going to make a new edition, make it new. Don’t just give me the same old stuff. I can play that if I wan to. </p><p></p><p>Give me a 4e instead of a 5e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 9199572, member: 6785785"] Enjoyment is subjective. Not everyone can be pleased. If I’m going to design a game, or anything really, I’m going to try and design it well. If I design a good game, then it will appeal to people. What I’m not going to set out to do is please everyone. I could rank all the variations of D&D with which I’m familiar, and then rank them according to how well designed they are. Then I can rank them according to how much I enjoyed them. Those rankings wouldn’t be the same, for a variety of reasons, many of which have little to nothing to do with design. But I don’t claim that my enjoyment of a game makes it a better designed game. I prefer when designers make the game they want to. When they have the vision to make decisions and go with what makes sense for the design of the game. Not when they set out to appease as many vocal folks as they can. I think that leads to watered down games. The edges get softened, the risks are removed for safer decisions. Bringing it back to 4e… I think as a game it’s clearly superior to 5e. Yet I’ve played much more 5e than 4e, for the reasons I’ve already stated. It’s a serviceable version of D&D. But there’s very little about it that stands out. Very little that’s unique to this edition that didn’t come from a prior one. Very little innovation. I still have my old books from past editions, and those I don’t have are easily obtained these days. I can play any of those games. So if they’re going to make a new edition, make it new. Don’t just give me the same old stuff. I can play that if I wan to. Give me a 4e instead of a 5e. [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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