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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Parmandur" data-source="post: 9199788" data-attributes="member: 6780330"><p>Well, your earlier description of how the game is fuzzy and indeterminate actually goes a long way towards pointing towards what is fun for me, actually. Those are features that facilitate loose and fast play and get in the way less than 3.x did. I started with 3.x in College, and in retrospect we were playing as we later would with 5E, but wrestling against the system a bit. Other RPGs that I find fun include Call of Cthulu and other BRP derivatives, Traveller, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and Powered by the Apocalypse games. All of which allow for a nice quick flow of decision resolution.</p><p></p><p>4E was not fun for me, amd a large part had to do with the presentation to be fair as [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] says, but also because of how drawn out combat could be. In 3.x it was easy enough to ignore gridded combat for Theatre of the Mind, but 5E really got out of tge way with facilitating that. Minis still work great for those that want them, bit 4E really did kind of make TotM painful, which then necessitated playing it the one way the designers intended, and combat sort of ate the whole game time up and alowed.everything down. Just not my vibe.</p><p></p><p>And that's not to say it wasn't fun for a number of people, but that's a shift that left a lot of people out I'm tjw cold...and WotC did not see it because their designers were stuck in an information bubble, as Mike Mearls has described. Designer-centric approaches to design, as opposed to user-centric, can really blow up in the designers face.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Parmandur, post: 9199788, member: 6780330"] Well, your earlier description of how the game is fuzzy and indeterminate actually goes a long way towards pointing towards what is fun for me, actually. Those are features that facilitate loose and fast play and get in the way less than 3.x did. I started with 3.x in College, and in retrospect we were playing as we later would with 5E, but wrestling against the system a bit. Other RPGs that I find fun include Call of Cthulu and other BRP derivatives, Traveller, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and Powered by the Apocalypse games. All of which allow for a nice quick flow of decision resolution. 4E was not fun for me, amd a large part had to do with the presentation to be fair as [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] says, but also because of how drawn out combat could be. In 3.x it was easy enough to ignore gridded combat for Theatre of the Mind, but 5E really got out of tge way with facilitating that. Minis still work great for those that want them, bit 4E really did kind of make TotM painful, which then necessitated playing it the one way the designers intended, and combat sort of ate the whole game time up and alowed.everything down. Just not my vibe. And that's not to say it wasn't fun for a number of people, but that's a shift that left a lot of people out I'm tjw cold...and WotC did not see it because their designers were stuck in an information bubble, as Mike Mearls has described. Designer-centric approaches to design, as opposed to user-centric, can really blow up in the designers face. [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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