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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 9216581" data-attributes="member: 8461">That's not my point though; it's literally what I'm arguing against! The people saying that hit point depletion from damage on a miss isn't really "damage" at all, but rather a loss of luck/stamina/divine protection/etc., are the ones saying it's different from hit point depletion due to being hit by a fireball (which are burns), etc.Admittedly, some people are trying to reconcile the double-standard by saying that even hit point loss from a fireball isn't physical injury either, but I'd like to think that's self-evidently a much harder point to make.</blockquote>