NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 9216663" data-attributes="member: 8461">It was poor form on your part to make an assertion and then not bother to demonstrate why you felt it was true. Just posting a statement of "you're wrong" is not a substantive contribution to a discussion, even if you tag it with "and this is the specific way in which you're wrong." Doing so simply comes across as rude, and so invites responses in the same vein. You need to actually bring up merits to say why your assertion is correct, otherwise it can be dismissed without evidence...because you've provided none.Again, if you want to make a contribution to the discussion, it helps to actually, you know, contribute. Saying "it's apparent that they're right and you're wrong" isn't really any better than saying "you're wrong, in this particular way." Which is what you're still doing here, i.e. not engaging with the actual points which have been brought up in the discussion, and instead saying why you weren't really at fault for throwing out an assertion and then not backing it up. Which, again, you should have done if you wanted to actually discuss the issue(s) in question.Yes, that is "really" a double-standard. Having a singular mechanic represent multiple things in the fiction is having a standard that performs double-duty, as <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/ben-riggs-what-the-heck-happened-with-4th-edition-seminar-at-gen-con-2023.699181/post-9216635" target="_blank">other posters</a> have (correctly) pointed out.No, the point is not moot. By naming the spell that, the game is deliberately going out of its way to tell us what the mechanical operation is indicating in terms of the fiction. Moreover, that perfectly dovetails with similar operations, such as non-magical hit point recovery, which is not accomplished by picking four-leaf clovers or tithing to a church. There's no "tension" except that the single characterization of hit point loss as stamina reduction is not backed up by any of the game's actual mechanical elements (which, yes, include what those elements are named).You seem to have forgotten what was being discussed in this response, which was your continued insistence that pointing out the double-standard in hit point depletion being injury and being stamina loss is a special pleading, which is rather ironic because it's that double-standard that is itself a special pleading, insofar as the tension between having one operation be two different things goes. Other people saying "but that's never been a problem for me!" doesn't mean that the issue isn't there; again, being able to solve the problem means acknowledging that there's a problem in the first place.I don't know where you get the idea that partial damage on a save is beng "overlooked," because on a review of the thread that's never been any position that I can find being put forward. Partial damage on a saving throw (a saving throw being a different operation) is simply an acknowledgement that the character is being injured, and is managing to minimize their injuries. That's a very different animal than damage on a miss, as Snarf very neatly explained above.</blockquote>

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