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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 9216863" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>The game is silent on a lot of things. There are a lot of things that I have to figure out. So let's imagine that we establish that hit points loss represent an injury. This just shifts the problem and creates a new front. Where does my sword hit my opponent? How deep does the cut go? Is my opponent in pain? If the GM narrates that a monster bites me in the chest, am I walking around with a punctured lung and chest cavity? Would I be limping if the monster had bit me in the leg instead? The game doesn't tell me much about anything regarding what's happening with injuries within the context of the game world, regardless of what HP represents. D&D really is not a game that is interested in these sorts of things. </p><p></p><p>I personally suspect that the reason why the game is silent is not because it off-loads the task of determining within the context of the game world onto the players, but, rather, because it has historically off-loaded this responsibility onto the the Dungeon Master! The DM was the referee, the arbiter, and judge of interpreting the mechanics in the game fiction. The DM was the system. What does the HP loss represent? That's what the DM tells you. </p><p></p><p></p><p>It would probably be better if we ignored your last eight words and the smiley here. I said, "The game tells me that the Warlord's words fill me with greater resolve, potentially allowing me to tap into my energy reserves, so I keep fighting with a renewed sense of vigor." This is indeed what happens with Inspiring Word. As a result of the warlord's inspiring words of courage and determination, the target can spend a healing surge (i.e., the aforementioned "tap into my energy reserves") in order to heal their HP. "Healing" is a keyword in the game representing a power or ability that restores HP.But remember, that HP is not strictly meat in 4e, and that That is your hang-up and not the game's. </p><p></p><p></p><p>This assertion is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Based on what he said prior, I imagine that [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] reading this would probably think to himself "what cognitive gap?" That's probably true for others in this thread. </p><p></p><p>I wouldn't call it a cognitive gap. I would call it a simple case of vagueness. You don't like that the game is <em>vague </em>about this subject matter. You want the game to be more explicit and less vague about what's happening with HP. It's not, and the game and its designer don't want to be explicit about these things or they are possibly uninterested in such things. There may be reasons why that's the case. It's possible that they see value in keeping HP vague. It's possible that making HP less vague makes other and more problems than it's worth. </p><p></p><p></p><p>4e is probably the one of two editions of D&D that goes to the greatest lengths to do the metaphorical heavy lifting on your behalf through its extensive use of keywords, terms, and so on that it provides, particularly in regards to its character abilities and powers. </p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean like HP and healing surges? While not perfectly tuned, 4e is a remarkably consistent game when you look into how its design. </p><p></p><p></p><p>But do they though? Do I have have to deal with this problem? Does [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER], [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER], [USER=7040765]@Red Castle[/USER], or others have to deal with this at our tables? If this is a problem, I have never seen it play out at any table I have personally sat it. If it is a problem, then it is only one that I have encountered on message boards. </p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are curious for the answers to your questions, then I would encourage you to read the rules of 4e. You know how, for example, a fireball causes fire damage on a successful save? You can read it in the Fireball spell description. Likewise, these powers in 4e will often explicitly tell you what kind of damage and/or effect the target takes on a miss. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That<em> is </em>the 4e explanation for how a miss is still a hit: i.e., splash effects (just like partial damage on saves), glancing blows (weapon attack powers!), or incidental effects of the attack. Now granted, you may personally want a more thorough explanation or have it done on a case by case basis, but the game does indicate what a miss is intended to represent. </p><p></p><p></p><p>It does inform us what is going on in the setting. A lot of the abilities are pretty clear about what's going on in the setting, including what happens on a miss. In fact, it's arguably even clearer than other editions of D&D. Like when I "miss" as a Cleric with my Turn Undead ability, the game tells me that targets take half radiant damage but aren't pushed or immobilized on a miss.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 9216863, member: 5142"] The game is silent on a lot of things. There are a lot of things that I have to figure out. So let's imagine that we establish that hit points loss represent an injury. This just shifts the problem and creates a new front. Where does my sword hit my opponent? How deep does the cut go? Is my opponent in pain? If the GM narrates that a monster bites me in the chest, am I walking around with a punctured lung and chest cavity? Would I be limping if the monster had bit me in the leg instead? The game doesn't tell me much about anything regarding what's happening with injuries within the context of the game world, regardless of what HP represents. D&D really is not a game that is interested in these sorts of things. I personally suspect that the reason why the game is silent is not because it off-loads the task of determining within the context of the game world onto the players, but, rather, because it has historically off-loaded this responsibility onto the the Dungeon Master! The DM was the referee, the arbiter, and judge of interpreting the mechanics in the game fiction. The DM was the system. What does the HP loss represent? That's what the DM tells you. It would probably be better if we ignored your last eight words and the smiley here. I said, "The game tells me that the Warlord's words fill me with greater resolve, potentially allowing me to tap into my energy reserves, so I keep fighting with a renewed sense of vigor." This is indeed what happens with Inspiring Word. As a result of the warlord's inspiring words of courage and determination, the target can spend a healing surge (i.e., the aforementioned "tap into my energy reserves") in order to heal their HP. "Healing" is a keyword in the game representing a power or ability that restores HP.But remember, that HP is not strictly meat in 4e, and that That is your hang-up and not the game's. [I][/I] This assertion is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Based on what he said prior, I imagine that [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] reading this would probably think to himself "what cognitive gap?" That's probably true for others in this thread. I wouldn't call it a cognitive gap. I would call it a simple case of vagueness. You don't like that the game is [I]vague [/I]about this subject matter. You want the game to be more explicit and less vague about what's happening with HP. It's not, and the game and its designer don't want to be explicit about these things or they are possibly uninterested in such things. There may be reasons why that's the case. It's possible that they see value in keeping HP vague. It's possible that making HP less vague makes other and more problems than it's worth. 4e is probably the one of two editions of D&D that goes to the greatest lengths to do the metaphorical heavy lifting on your behalf through its extensive use of keywords, terms, and so on that it provides, particularly in regards to its character abilities and powers. You mean like HP and healing surges? While not perfectly tuned, 4e is a remarkably consistent game when you look into how its design. But do they though? Do I have have to deal with this problem? Does [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER], [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER], [USER=7040765]@Red Castle[/USER], or others have to deal with this at our tables? If this is a problem, I have never seen it play out at any table I have personally sat it. If it is a problem, then it is only one that I have encountered on message boards. If you are curious for the answers to your questions, then I would encourage you to read the rules of 4e. You know how, for example, a fireball causes fire damage on a successful save? You can read it in the Fireball spell description. Likewise, these powers in 4e will often explicitly tell you what kind of damage and/or effect the target takes on a miss. That[I] is [/I]the 4e explanation for how a miss is still a hit: i.e., splash effects (just like partial damage on saves), glancing blows (weapon attack powers!), or incidental effects of the attack. Now granted, you may personally want a more thorough explanation or have it done on a case by case basis, but the game does indicate what a miss is intended to represent. It does inform us what is going on in the setting. A lot of the abilities are pretty clear about what's going on in the setting, including what happens on a miss. In fact, it's arguably even clearer than other editions of D&D. Like when I "miss" as a Cleric with my Turn Undead ability, the game tells me that targets take half radiant damage but aren't pushed or immobilized on a miss. [/QUOTE]
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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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