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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 9217352" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>It's not inherent; all of the examples you've posted either admit that a hit was taking place, or have you disregarding what the game says in order to use your own interpretation apart from what the game's telling us, which is that the 10th level fighter was in fact hit (no quotation marks needed) by the club. Now, supplanting the game's explanation for your own is fine, but it's still something that needs to be acknowledged. Likewise, I've already mentioned, twice now, why the lack of realistic effects that such injuries entail doesn't disprove this idea, and how the game's operations presenting themselves in the context of physical harm and recovery support it.</p><p></p><p>Gary also wrote absolutely no actual mechanics that supported that essay, as has been pointed out before. If hit points can be luck or divine protection, why can't you regain them by tithing to a church or picking four-leaf clovers? Why aren't the spells named <em>restore luck</em> and <em>renew divine protection</em>?</p><p></p><p>And I accept and embrace Gary's presentation of how the operations of the game he co-wrote are presented by the game itself. You rest in bed to recover hit points, or get a <em>heal</em> spell, etc.</p><p></p><p>I have no doubt that some version of Gary's essay has appeared elsewhere, but what I'm more interested in are instances of where the operations related to losing/regaining hit points are presented by the game itself as something other than injury/healing. While I suspect that there are a few out there in the pre-4E editions, they seem remarkably rare, showing that operation to have been extremely clear and consistent before 4E decided to actually apply that essay practically, opening up a very large can of worms.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 9217352, member: 8461"] It's not inherent; all of the examples you've posted either admit that a hit was taking place, or have you disregarding what the game says in order to use your own interpretation apart from what the game's telling us, which is that the 10th level fighter was in fact hit (no quotation marks needed) by the club. Now, supplanting the game's explanation for your own is fine, but it's still something that needs to be acknowledged. Likewise, I've already mentioned, twice now, why the lack of realistic effects that such injuries entail doesn't disprove this idea, and how the game's operations presenting themselves in the context of physical harm and recovery support it. Gary also wrote absolutely no actual mechanics that supported that essay, as has been pointed out before. If hit points can be luck or divine protection, why can't you regain them by tithing to a church or picking four-leaf clovers? Why aren't the spells named [I]restore luck[/I] and [I]renew divine protection[/I]? And I accept and embrace Gary's presentation of how the operations of the game he co-wrote are presented by the game itself. You rest in bed to recover hit points, or get a [I]heal[/I] spell, etc. I have no doubt that some version of Gary's essay has appeared elsewhere, but what I'm more interested in are instances of where the operations related to losing/regaining hit points are presented by the game itself as something other than injury/healing. While I suspect that there are a few out there in the pre-4E editions, they seem remarkably rare, showing that operation to have been extremely clear and consistent before 4E decided to actually apply that essay practically, opening up a very large can of worms. [/QUOTE]
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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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