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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 9217409" data-attributes="member: 5142">Are you gonna leave this claim unsupported? Why does this require anything of the sort other than your insistence that it does?This amounts to making a problem out of nothing.No, you are wrong here. I am doing nothing of the sort. What I am actually saying here is that you are misreading 4e. You are cherry-picking things out of context and misquoting the text without first putting them into context of the larger body of rules. No one will take your arguments about 4e seriously here if you can't be bothered or aren't willing to do your proper due diligence.You may have lost sight of the argument in your choice to extend the stair analogy.The mechanics of 4e tells you where the HP is coming from and what is causing its depletion/restoration in the fiction, but the game does not subscribe to your "double-duty" false dichotomy that you are presenting here. This requirement you are putting forth here feels made up.I'm aware with how 4e is different from other editions in a number of key places. I am not denying that 4e is different from other editions, just as other editions are different from each other for various reasons. However, I don't think that it is so ontologically different as to be a wholly different species outside of the D&D family. Others have likewise made citations corroborating how 4e's understanding of HP is consistent with earlier editions.4e did make up its mind about what HP means, and it's quite clear about what it means. You said it yourself. It talked the talk and walked the walk of earlier editions about HP as being a variety of survival factors. And yet for some reason now you are claiming that the game is schizophrenic about it. You may not like 4e's answer and how it consistently applies that answer in the rules because it precludes your previous ability to read HP in your idiomatic way.Citations needed.It's certaintly not hostility to note that you were caught unawares by people who informed you about and explained 4e healing surges to you. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷‍♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging    :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />Because HP is an abstraction (much as [USER=7026594]@Mannahnin[/USER] says) that measures a character or foe's overall ability to stay in a fight before dying or being killed. This is the answer we got from Gygax, and D&D, including 4e D&D, has been overall consistent with that understanding.You believe it exists. You assert that it exists. However, you now need to put in the work to convincingly show that it does exist.No, there is not in fact an onus on the player to model the interplay of these things at all. I am worried here that you are trying to argue that your personal issue HP representing more than physical wounds is somehow a universal one.This argument does not effectively establish that a cognitive gap exists between the phenomena represented by HP. You're just repeating yourself in a circular argument that asserts the existence of this cognitive gap regarding HP exists as some sort of self-evident truth.I'm not putting forth your state of mind nor am I accusing you of being disingenuous about anything. I am offering a possible explanation that you likely preferred the fact that HP was vague in other editions because that vagueness gave you license to read HP in your preferred way.</blockquote>

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