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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9220325" data-attributes="member: 22779">Hey, don't shoot the messenger.&nbsp; I'll admit, I find it really hard to take seriously as well.&nbsp; I've long commented that I find it baffling that anyone who seriously was into that sort of gaming would play D&amp;D.&nbsp; But, the truth of the matter is that they do and they do take it very seriously.&nbsp; And, to be fair, D&amp;D doesn't really stand in the way of playing this way either.&nbsp; There's nothing really there that says, &quot;Yeah, no, this won't work if you insist that the fiction and the mechanics are closely tied together.&nbsp; It certainly can work.&nbsp; In the end, we lost this argument.&nbsp; And that's the bottom line.&nbsp; Those that insist that the mechanics define the game world won this argument.&nbsp; That's why we got 5e.&nbsp; 5e, as much as it can, bridges that gap and tries to give enough rope to both sides of the divide without hanging anyone.&nbsp; 4e was unapologetic in its approach and the fandom did not like that because it ran right into the face of what they thought D&amp;D should look like.&nbsp; So, 5e rides the fence as much as it can and gives as little ammunition as possible to either side.&nbsp; On one hand, you have non-magical healing, but, it's pretty limited and easy to ignore.&nbsp; OTOH, you still have two step recovery and whatnot.&nbsp; It really is quite impressive what they've done.&nbsp; And, because they've managed to toe that line for almost ten years now, I think people are pretty willing to start giving them the benefit of the doubt a lot of time.&nbsp; So, we get a toe dipped into damage on a miss with the weapons.&nbsp; We'll see how that pans out.&nbsp; Then, a little bit later, another change.&nbsp; Then another and another.&nbsp; Baby steps.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9220325, member: 22779"] Hey, don't shoot the messenger. I'll admit, I find it really hard to take seriously as well. I've long commented that I find it baffling that anyone who seriously was into that sort of gaming would play D&D. But, the truth of the matter is that they do and they do take it very seriously. And, to be fair, D&D doesn't really stand in the way of playing this way either. There's nothing really there that says, "Yeah, no, this won't work if you insist that the fiction and the mechanics are closely tied together. It certainly can work. In the end, we lost this argument. And that's the bottom line. Those that insist that the mechanics define the game world won this argument. That's why we got 5e. 5e, as much as it can, bridges that gap and tries to give enough rope to both sides of the divide without hanging anyone. 4e was unapologetic in its approach and the fandom did not like that because it ran right into the face of what they thought D&D should look like. So, 5e rides the fence as much as it can and gives as little ammunition as possible to either side. On one hand, you have non-magical healing, but, it's pretty limited and easy to ignore. OTOH, you still have two step recovery and whatnot. It really is quite impressive what they've done. And, because they've managed to toe that line for almost ten years now, I think people are pretty willing to start giving them the benefit of the doubt a lot of time. So, we get a toe dipped into damage on a miss with the weapons. We'll see how that pans out. Then, a little bit later, another change. Then another and another. Baby steps. [/QUOTE]

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