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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 9220659" data-attributes="member: 7023840">I will be brief.1. I don't think comparing other games, such as PbTA, is particularly helpful. Other games are other games. If a person is playing a different game, they are already accepting different rules, aren't they?2. I think that changes in a brand (such as D&D) are not a simple matter. You can complain until the cows come home about this change or that change, but the simple issue is this- for many people, 4e was "too much." How much? I don't know, I'm not them. But as others have pointed out, as the game changes, things change. Maybe "graze" (aka, miss on a hit, for certain individuals, with certain weapons) will be fine in 5.5e. People often use synecdoche when having these discussions; after all, for you this is just a rehash of the evergreen "martials v. casters" debate. But the reason that 4e was divisive wasn't just about "miss on a hit." That was one of a number of changes. So again, you can argue with people about the way that they feel the way they do, or accept it. But you're not going to convince them.(And I would note that I have covered the issues, and difference, between saving throws and other mechanisms with D&D, and the historical roots, extensively in the past. So I am comfortable saying that while you do not see a difference, many other people do. And that's okay! Different strokes for different folks.)</blockquote>