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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 9223297" data-attributes="member: 13107"><p>In fairness, I’m remembering lot of long forgotten issues that I had with 3E, mostly in regards to initiative and to attacks-of-opportunity mechanics. In hindsight, I’m also able to articulate an unease which ultimately was resolved by bounded accuracy, and, having built a few terrain tables, have grown disaffected with the combat grid. I don’t have a strong stance in regards to attitudes towards 5E; my group still uses 3E. But, I can apply the consternation re:5E as a consternation to 3E. That is, if I had a problem with 4E, why didn’t I have a problem with 3E?</p><p></p><p>The answer is, I suppose, that I did, but there was no alternative. Either get with the program (use 3E) or don’t play. Plus, I liked the crunchyness of 3E, with its keywords and linear (additive) class levels. I was an early Rolemaster devotee years before getting back to D&D, so 3E was an easy sell.</p><p></p><p>My group never adopted 4E and has no inclination to buy into 5E. 4E changed too much for us, and we didn't really care for how it played. Looking at 5E I feel that I’m going backwards. Also, I feel that 5E is relying on the ghosts of structures provided by 3E and 4E: Natural language descriptions work because folks have a sense of how to give them a consistency using the previous game structures.</p><p></p><p>I’m rather not looking forward to 5.5E. Jaded that I am, I suspect that eventually there will be a new edition that is changed enough such that new, younger players cannot inherit the books from older, retiring players. Evergreen through forced incompatibility.</p><p></p><p>TomB</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tomBitonti, post: 9223297, member: 13107"] In fairness, I’m remembering lot of long forgotten issues that I had with 3E, mostly in regards to initiative and to attacks-of-opportunity mechanics. In hindsight, I’m also able to articulate an unease which ultimately was resolved by bounded accuracy, and, having built a few terrain tables, have grown disaffected with the combat grid. I don’t have a strong stance in regards to attitudes towards 5E; my group still uses 3E. But, I can apply the consternation re:5E as a consternation to 3E. That is, if I had a problem with 4E, why didn’t I have a problem with 3E? The answer is, I suppose, that I did, but there was no alternative. Either get with the program (use 3E) or don’t play. Plus, I liked the crunchyness of 3E, with its keywords and linear (additive) class levels. I was an early Rolemaster devotee years before getting back to D&D, so 3E was an easy sell. My group never adopted 4E and has no inclination to buy into 5E. 4E changed too much for us, and we didn't really care for how it played. Looking at 5E I feel that I’m going backwards. Also, I feel that 5E is relying on the ghosts of structures provided by 3E and 4E: Natural language descriptions work because folks have a sense of how to give them a consistency using the previous game structures. I’m rather not looking forward to 5.5E. Jaded that I am, I suspect that eventually there will be a new edition that is changed enough such that new, younger players cannot inherit the books from older, retiring players. Evergreen through forced incompatibility. TomB [/QUOTE]
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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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