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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 9227698" data-attributes="member: 6778210"><p>Maybe. Probably. I mean, it seems like there's a rather decent market for "D&D but with more" right now as it feels like some people kind of age out of trying to make 5E what they want it to be.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>PF2 is very much sits between 3E, 4E, and 5E when it comes to mechanics and such. It doesn't directly copy 4E as much as it takes a lot of its lessons to heart and puts their own spin on them. I don't think it'll be a real substitute for what 4E was and how wild some of the powers were, at least until you get to later levels (which would probably be my biggest critique: there are some really awesome powers, but they should really move up the feat leveling schedule by like 5 levels). I really love it, but I don't think it's fully in the vein of 4E like Lancer or 13th Age aspire to be.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Dude, my quote of you was you whining about 4E people having a "victim complex" or something. You might want to check yourself a bit there, because we're only a few steps away from a real "I'm not mad, please don't tell people I'm mad" situation.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, that's as much a leap as saying "Mike Mearls did some shady stuff, so I'm going to talk about how many problems 5E has". Just because we can create a thread between them doesn't suddenly mean that it's what the topic is about. It's almost like people who want to s*** on 4E find ways of turning the topic into the same old fights over and over and over...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's largely because people are trying to put in their own personal preferences as flaws of the game, rather than simply recognizing them as such. People talking about things are "nonsensical" while refusing to engage with the logic the system works under is exactly that sort of thing. It'd be the same if I were to try and say "5E sucks because it doesn't do big numbers", since 5E was trying to <em>avoid</em> that, and people would be right say that I'm simply putting my personal preference in there and not engaging with the actual stated design goals of the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 9227698, member: 6778210"] Maybe. Probably. I mean, it seems like there's a rather decent market for "D&D but with more" right now as it feels like some people kind of age out of trying to make 5E what they want it to be. PF2 is very much sits between 3E, 4E, and 5E when it comes to mechanics and such. It doesn't directly copy 4E as much as it takes a lot of its lessons to heart and puts their own spin on them. I don't think it'll be a real substitute for what 4E was and how wild some of the powers were, at least until you get to later levels (which would probably be my biggest critique: there are some really awesome powers, but they should really move up the feat leveling schedule by like 5 levels). I really love it, but I don't think it's fully in the vein of 4E like Lancer or 13th Age aspire to be. Dude, my quote of you was you whining about 4E people having a "victim complex" or something. You might want to check yourself a bit there, because we're only a few steps away from a real "I'm not mad, please don't tell people I'm mad" situation. I mean, that's as much a leap as saying "Mike Mearls did some shady stuff, so I'm going to talk about how many problems 5E has". Just because we can create a thread between them doesn't suddenly mean that it's what the topic is about. It's almost like people who want to s*** on 4E find ways of turning the topic into the same old fights over and over and over... That's largely because people are trying to put in their own personal preferences as flaws of the game, rather than simply recognizing them as such. People talking about things are "nonsensical" while refusing to engage with the logic the system works under is exactly that sort of thing. It'd be the same if I were to try and say "5E sucks because it doesn't do big numbers", since 5E was trying to [I]avoid[/I] that, and people would be right say that I'm simply putting my personal preference in there and not engaging with the actual stated design goals of the game. [/QUOTE]
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Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023
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