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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 9227770" data-attributes="member: 6778210">They're all trying for very different things. 13A is one I want to try but is definitely the most different, seeming to move away from the class skeleton while keeping with how powers are built. PF2 feels like "What if 4E was closer to 3E in concept", where it's got a lot of design aspirations from 4E but is still trying to keep the idea of 3E. And 4E... well, 4E kind of broke the ground for the mainstream on that, didn't it? Not that others didn't do such things, but rather the biggest game out there doing it was a big deal. Really sad there isn't a proper 4.5E out there.It's interesting to see how certain systems deal with and others don't. Minions in 4E are a great example of solving things without having to really mess with the math: You don't need to raise someone's damage output so much that it can one-shot an Ogre no problem. Instead, at a certain level you can just do it. It's a good solution.PF2 attacks it from the other angle: your damage does go up, as well as your ability to hit and cause criticals. Thus you end up demolishing lower-level enemies while not having to change their stats or something because the math is designed to let you do it. And if you want to do hordes of little enemies, they basically have large blobs of them that act and strike together called "Troops" that represent entire units of enemies that shrink as you whittle their HP. At a certain point your fighter isn't attacking individual skeletons, but demolishing a skeleton troop where his damage output represents him swiping away 3-4 skeletons every time he hits.Slight exaggeration, but yeah, that's kind of the idea. I do think that halving PF2's level bonus would probably be a good middle ground for both systems, but I have never attempted to math it out.</blockquote>

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