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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5904325" data-attributes="member: 87792">The problem here is that we have a different definition of trivial.  To you trivial equates to "At Will".  I have no substantial problem with at will for minor effects.   To me the problem with magic being too cheap is something more like the wizard being a Trust Fund Baby.  The Sorceror is the worst case.  He gets his magic for ... by the RAW he doesn't even need a good night's sleep.  He is quite literally paid in magic, and powerful magic at that, for nothing more important than continuing to draw breath.  The wizard on the other hand needs to work for his magic.  He gets paid a fairly substantial magical income for doing two things - getting a good night's sleep and spending one hour studying.  Nice work if you can get it! And as for being miserly with spells, at the end of the day for a 'Vancian' wizard, it's Use It Or Lose It.  Almost the cheapest price possible. In neither case is there a substantive cost associated to magic.  (At Will spells/cantrips are simply putting a chunk of the trust fund into petty cash - it's the big stuff that really matters). If you want there to be a cost for magic, 5E will be the first edition to do so.  You need either a potential backlash for casting any spell, or a significant money and/or hit point cost (as rituals tried) for any spell.  This is why the 3.5 Bard was my favourite version of a wizard - he's a loremaster with limited casting (especially if you make a lot of it coincidental) and a wide skill range.  Ah, yes.  The Tyranny of Fun.  I've not seen that one rear its ugly head for a while.  And it's just as wrong now as it was then. And if you want a game with expensive magic, the only D&D version I can do it well in so far is 4e.   With a martial-only party and all magic being rituals, which means they actually cost something in time and resources.  Amazing how the version with the cheapest low level magic is the only one to make a real game with expensive magic.  But I suppose that thinking about how to have expensive magic and cheap magic in the same game without breaking it with either is the sort of fun that should be banned.</blockquote>

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