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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5909007" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>That's not really true. A striker is contributing a LOT more to a battle against a solo than they are to a battle against a bundle of minions. A defender does better in the same circumstance, generally (wardens get around this a bit, but they still have to be adjacent to the critters). In a battle against brutes or artillery, Leaders shine bright, and in a fight against masses of creatures, most controllers do well (with their area-effect abilities).</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, if you had unreactive encounters in 4e, you'd just have <em>much easier encounters</em> where the party could nova, flee, and nova again. It undoes all of 4e's careful pacing of recovery and attack. So while the players may remain the same, the game itself looses a sense of urgency and challenge, and results in "press A" gameplay, where there's no real outcome to affect, you just need to press a button (or roll a dice) to get to the predetermined endpoint. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am not sure I buy the reasons why, and I don't know that "when the party gets healed, so does the party's opposition" is especially advanced -- certainly less complex than trying to keep track of all the changes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The DM isn't telling the players that they must go down a certain path or cannot deviate from the direction. He's just saying, "To accomplish this, you need to go through X, Y, and Z. If you don't go all the way through, you don't get to accomplish it."</p><p></p><p>To put it in more classic sandboxy design, rather than have a "random encounter table" for when the party enters a forest, you have a single Adventure in that forest (which may or may not be made up of random parts). This adventure may promise great power and rewards, but you can always pass it by if you're not interested in any of that. It's only that, to get to that power and reward, you're going to need to tackle it all at once. You don't get to go into the forest, eliminate half of the threats, run away to the village, rest up, and return to the thing in the same state in which you left it. It is going to change in reaction to your activities. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's a fair skepticism. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I can't be sure that it's going to happen, either. But I can see a motif in which it is viable, and I would really want that to happen. </p><p></p><p>An early blog post from Monte mentioned that they can compare the effects of Charm Person to combat damage, which makes me optimistic. The Three Pillars structure really advocates for making these things interchangable. These are little tidbits, nothing conclusive, but they show a similar way of thinking about the problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 5909007, member: 2067"] That's not really true. A striker is contributing a LOT more to a battle against a solo than they are to a battle against a bundle of minions. A defender does better in the same circumstance, generally (wardens get around this a bit, but they still have to be adjacent to the critters). In a battle against brutes or artillery, Leaders shine bright, and in a fight against masses of creatures, most controllers do well (with their area-effect abilities). Furthermore, if you had unreactive encounters in 4e, you'd just have [I]much easier encounters[/I] where the party could nova, flee, and nova again. It undoes all of 4e's careful pacing of recovery and attack. So while the players may remain the same, the game itself looses a sense of urgency and challenge, and results in "press A" gameplay, where there's no real outcome to affect, you just need to press a button (or roll a dice) to get to the predetermined endpoint. I am not sure I buy the reasons why, and I don't know that "when the party gets healed, so does the party's opposition" is especially advanced -- certainly less complex than trying to keep track of all the changes. The DM isn't telling the players that they must go down a certain path or cannot deviate from the direction. He's just saying, "To accomplish this, you need to go through X, Y, and Z. If you don't go all the way through, you don't get to accomplish it." To put it in more classic sandboxy design, rather than have a "random encounter table" for when the party enters a forest, you have a single Adventure in that forest (which may or may not be made up of random parts). This adventure may promise great power and rewards, but you can always pass it by if you're not interested in any of that. It's only that, to get to that power and reward, you're going to need to tackle it all at once. You don't get to go into the forest, eliminate half of the threats, run away to the village, rest up, and return to the thing in the same state in which you left it. It is going to change in reaction to your activities. It's a fair skepticism. :) I can't be sure that it's going to happen, either. But I can see a motif in which it is viable, and I would really want that to happen. An early blog post from Monte mentioned that they can compare the effects of Charm Person to combat damage, which makes me optimistic. The Three Pillars structure really advocates for making these things interchangable. These are little tidbits, nothing conclusive, but they show a similar way of thinking about the problem. [/QUOTE]
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