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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 6780717" data-attributes="member: 2629">For those that want to use a more useful exercise - don't look at GWM DPR alone, look at what happens when things go bad and you're using GWM.&nbsp; The answer: You're usually increasing the chance of a TPK by using it.&nbsp; Build a 5th level character (one of the classes that can use a two handed weapon and gets 2 attacks at 5th level).&nbsp; Take GWM as the 4th level feat.&nbsp; Now, put them solo - head to head - with an Earth Elemental (CR 5 - a way more than deadly encounter) in a small space (so they're basically trading blows).&nbsp; When you fight, track the results of the combat twice - once with GWM active (+5/-10, bonus attack on crit), and once with it not active (bonus attack on crit, but no bonus/penalty). GWM active version will hit harder when it hits, but non-GWM version will hit more often, but for 10 less damage. When the monster wins, track how many hps it has left.On average GWM active will deal more damage.&nbsp; However, there will be some fights that the GWM active version will win that the non=active version would lose, and some that the non-active will win that the GWM will lose.&nbsp; The interesting thing: How many hps does the monster average having left when the PC loses?&nbsp; How often do you see a nearly full strength elemental when the PC is down?You see stronger victorious elementals substantially more often with the GWM active version of the PC.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; More of a chance to whiff.&nbsp; More times that no damage is dealt in a few attacks in a row - and that leaves stronger enemies afloat when luck is against you.&nbsp;&nbsp; So, although you're dealing more damage on average with GWM, you're also experiencing a higher percentage of situations in which you're ineffectual early in a combat.&nbsp; Over time, with enemies with enough hps that you make a lot of attacks, this impact is negated by probablity's light hand - but in small numbers of attacks, like you see in a battle with an enemy with this many hps (or less), the hand of luck can be felt a lot more dramatically.&nbsp; On top of this concern, you have to remember that PCs that do a lot of damage in a single swipe often experience more &quot;overkill&quot; - extra damage that exceeds the remaining hps of an enemy and are essentially wasted.The result: When luck goes bad, you're increasing the chance you're ineffectual and go down leaving a fuller strength monster for allies to handle.&nbsp; Will this happen often?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; But will it happen.&nbsp; Typically, the answer is eventually yes.&nbsp; So, the question comes down to: Would you rather have a higher DPR or be more effective?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 6780717, member: 2629"] For those that want to use a more useful exercise - don't look at GWM DPR alone, look at what happens when things go bad and you're using GWM. The answer: You're usually increasing the chance of a TPK by using it. Build a 5th level character (one of the classes that can use a two handed weapon and gets 2 attacks at 5th level). Take GWM as the 4th level feat. Now, put them solo - head to head - with an Earth Elemental (CR 5 - a way more than deadly encounter) in a small space (so they're basically trading blows). When you fight, track the results of the combat twice - once with GWM active (+5/-10, bonus attack on crit), and once with it not active (bonus attack on crit, but no bonus/penalty). GWM active version will hit harder when it hits, but non-GWM version will hit more often, but for 10 less damage. When the monster wins, track how many hps it has left. On average GWM active will deal more damage. However, there will be some fights that the GWM active version will win that the non=active version would lose, and some that the non-active will win that the GWM will lose. The interesting thing: How many hps does the monster average having left when the PC loses? How often do you see a nearly full strength elemental when the PC is down? You see stronger victorious elementals substantially more often with the GWM active version of the PC. Why? More of a chance to whiff. More times that no damage is dealt in a few attacks in a row - and that leaves stronger enemies afloat when luck is against you. So, although you're dealing more damage on average with GWM, you're also experiencing a higher percentage of situations in which you're ineffectual early in a combat. Over time, with enemies with enough hps that you make a lot of attacks, this impact is negated by probablity's light hand - but in small numbers of attacks, like you see in a battle with an enemy with this many hps (or less), the hand of luck can be felt a lot more dramatically. On top of this concern, you have to remember that PCs that do a lot of damage in a single swipe often experience more "overkill" - extra damage that exceeds the remaining hps of an enemy and are essentially wasted. The result: When luck goes bad, you're increasing the chance you're ineffectual and go down leaving a fuller strength monster for allies to handle. Will this happen often? No. But will it happen. Typically, the answer is eventually yes. So, the question comes down to: Would you rather have a higher DPR or be more effective? [/QUOTE]

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