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Berserker is balanced with Zealot without exhaustion from Frenzy
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<blockquote data-quote="Hawk Diesel" data-source="post: 8185318" data-attributes="member: 59848"><p>Sorry, but I still disagree. Even if that math is correct, the fact remains that the Berserker is the ONLY class option that carries a penalty for its use. The only other effect that has any kind of penalty associated with it is the Haste spell, and even that only lasts a round (not to mention Haste is in no way a signature class ability like Frenzy is to the Berserker). Not only that, but the Frenzy effect can be easily replicated by just dual wielding. The damage may be slightly less, but you have essentially the same capacity to farm for crits. If you don't consider feats (which are optional anyways), Frenzy effectively makes you slightly more effective in DPR than a dual-wielding Bear totem barbarian, who also benefits from nearly universal resistance. The difference between a d8 weapon and a d12 weapon is an average damage of 2.</p><p></p><p>Additionally, consider that Frenzy is 3rd level. To benefit from power critical, you have to make it to level 9 before that even comes into play. So a player needs to suffer for 6 levels before they even start to see any real benefit from their signature class ability?</p><p></p><p>If you want to limit the number of uses of Frenzy, that's one thing. But to put a penalty on a character using the class ability that is their whole identity is not only overly harsh, but flies in the face of every design principle 5e has maintained since its inception.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hawk Diesel, post: 8185318, member: 59848"] Sorry, but I still disagree. Even if that math is correct, the fact remains that the Berserker is the ONLY class option that carries a penalty for its use. The only other effect that has any kind of penalty associated with it is the Haste spell, and even that only lasts a round (not to mention Haste is in no way a signature class ability like Frenzy is to the Berserker). Not only that, but the Frenzy effect can be easily replicated by just dual wielding. The damage may be slightly less, but you have essentially the same capacity to farm for crits. If you don't consider feats (which are optional anyways), Frenzy effectively makes you slightly more effective in DPR than a dual-wielding Bear totem barbarian, who also benefits from nearly universal resistance. The difference between a d8 weapon and a d12 weapon is an average damage of 2. Additionally, consider that Frenzy is 3rd level. To benefit from power critical, you have to make it to level 9 before that even comes into play. So a player needs to suffer for 6 levels before they even start to see any real benefit from their signature class ability? If you want to limit the number of uses of Frenzy, that's one thing. But to put a penalty on a character using the class ability that is their whole identity is not only overly harsh, but flies in the face of every design principle 5e has maintained since its inception. [/QUOTE]
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Berserker is balanced with Zealot without exhaustion from Frenzy
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