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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Berserker too strong?
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<blockquote data-quote="thuter" data-source="post: 8606490" data-attributes="member: 6975034"><p>Attacks on an extended crit range (19-20) have a 19% crit chance with advantage. So getting multiple in a row is lucky but will happen somewhat frequently. When getting 2 attacks per action (at lvl 5), there's almost a 35% chance of at least one of them being a crit (given advantage and 19-20 range), which would then trigger even more attacks from Relentless Attack (again with 19% crit chance each to trigger recursive attacks).</p><p></p><p>I don't have experience with the A5E Berserker, but I do have experience with a very similar 4E critfisher build: Avenger with Twin Strike. Two attacks per Standard Action, each with double rolls from Oath of Enmity, 19-20 crit range from his weapon enchantment (and he got a crit if both of the rolls came up with the same number, if that number would result in a hit, from his paragon path). Any crit would deal extra (ongoing and regular) damage, and would trigger another attack. 4E was limited to one 'free action' attack per turn, however, which we didn't know back then. He did absolutely ungodly amounts of damage, and we LOVED him for it! It was OP for sure, however. Another problem was that his turns took rather long as he had to roll so many dice.</p><p></p><p>So... While it involves some luck, the main problems are I think these:</p><p>1. Is it still possible for you as a DM to balance encounters? Because the unstable damage output of these kind of builds makes it sometimes possible that hard encounters get demolished in two rounds, but if you just use stronger monsters and the crit trains don't go off, your party suddenly is in a bad place.</p><p></p><p>2. Is the player having fun? If he feels like his character is too strong and it takes away the fun in encounters, maybe it is better to play a different character indeed. I have played a 5E crossbow expert sharpshooter weaponmaster at lvl 13 for one session, almost soloed a tough encounter in 2 rounds, was proud and disgusted and trashed the character immediatly for something less ridiculous. The problem is: Being effective in combat is fun, and if you enjoy it, that can be a good thing. But if you feel like you should be ashamed of the insane munchkin you created, that's not great.</p><p></p><p>3. Are the other players having fun? If they feel like their participation in combat is irrelevant, because the berserker will kill anything anyways, that might not be great. On the other hand, maybe they try to work to set the berserker meat grinder up as much as possible and play the encounter to his strengths. I have DM'd for a party with a wizard that was absolutely delighted to paralyze or sleep monsters, so that the barbarian in our 5E campaign could utterly slaughter the target with almost guaranteed crits. Even though he didn't <em>deal</em> the damage, he <em>made sure</em> things died.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thuter, post: 8606490, member: 6975034"] Attacks on an extended crit range (19-20) have a 19% crit chance with advantage. So getting multiple in a row is lucky but will happen somewhat frequently. When getting 2 attacks per action (at lvl 5), there's almost a 35% chance of at least one of them being a crit (given advantage and 19-20 range), which would then trigger even more attacks from Relentless Attack (again with 19% crit chance each to trigger recursive attacks). I don't have experience with the A5E Berserker, but I do have experience with a very similar 4E critfisher build: Avenger with Twin Strike. Two attacks per Standard Action, each with double rolls from Oath of Enmity, 19-20 crit range from his weapon enchantment (and he got a crit if both of the rolls came up with the same number, if that number would result in a hit, from his paragon path). Any crit would deal extra (ongoing and regular) damage, and would trigger another attack. 4E was limited to one 'free action' attack per turn, however, which we didn't know back then. He did absolutely ungodly amounts of damage, and we LOVED him for it! It was OP for sure, however. Another problem was that his turns took rather long as he had to roll so many dice. So... While it involves some luck, the main problems are I think these: 1. Is it still possible for you as a DM to balance encounters? Because the unstable damage output of these kind of builds makes it sometimes possible that hard encounters get demolished in two rounds, but if you just use stronger monsters and the crit trains don't go off, your party suddenly is in a bad place. 2. Is the player having fun? If he feels like his character is too strong and it takes away the fun in encounters, maybe it is better to play a different character indeed. I have played a 5E crossbow expert sharpshooter weaponmaster at lvl 13 for one session, almost soloed a tough encounter in 2 rounds, was proud and disgusted and trashed the character immediatly for something less ridiculous. The problem is: Being effective in combat is fun, and if you enjoy it, that can be a good thing. But if you feel like you should be ashamed of the insane munchkin you created, that's not great. 3. Are the other players having fun? If they feel like their participation in combat is irrelevant, because the berserker will kill anything anyways, that might not be great. On the other hand, maybe they try to work to set the berserker meat grinder up as much as possible and play the encounter to his strengths. I have DM'd for a party with a wizard that was absolutely delighted to paralyze or sleep monsters, so that the barbarian in our 5E campaign could utterly slaughter the target with almost guaranteed crits. Even though he didn't [I]deal[/I] the damage, he [I]made sure[/I] things died. [/QUOTE]
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Berserker too strong?
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