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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 8392110" data-attributes="member: 6750235">I agree it's not exactly great, but random is interesting for some people.  I don't care for random but I find it's a minor quibble because the random elixirs will get used regardless of what gets rolled, and at least it gives variety instead of a player always picking the same elixirs.Could be better but not a big deal, IME.Yes and no.They don't offer the ability to scale but that doesn't mean an alchemist cannot use a higher level slot in a pinch.  Elixirs can be created from any slot of 1st-level or higher.  They are pretty decent for a 1st-level slot but that 3 per day is less of a restriction than a bigger opportunity cost in place of what else the slot might have been used to cast.  It's not a big deal to use a 2nd-level slot for the transformation elixir, for example, because it's a 2nd-level spell and concentration free so it's a better use of the 2nd-level slot than actually casting alter self as a 2nd-level spell.  No one should question using a 2nd-level slot on an elixir that replicates a 2nd-level spell but saves concentration.  Being able to use a 1st-level slot more effectively than that 2nd-level slot is just better but doesn't change using the 2nd-level slot if needed.Flight elixirs fall into that a bit too.  I would still be better off to spend a 2nd-level slot on a flight elixir than the levitate spell if I want any mobility whatsoever, or if I am already using concentration on something else.  On myself, anyway; levitate has the offensive applications that flight elixirs do not.I would have a hard time spending a 2nd-level slot on other elixirs, except possibly boldness to stack bonuses but I'd be more likely to use that slot on enhance ability.The point here is the best elixirs are worth a 2nd-level slot so that 3 isn't the limit you suggest.  It's actually true of every other 1st-level spell in the game that also doesn't scale for every other class in the game.  ;-)Not really.THP for boldness or transformation is a bonus to which the healing bonus of a spell is irrelevant.  If I'm not using higher level slots for healing elixir's then the THP from that elixir is irrelevant to higher level healing spells I cast.  If the random elixir's are healing it's just free bonus healing not using a slot.The only competition is in slot usage for 1st-level healing spells like cure wounds or healing word, and I would either:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Use whichever give me a better advantage at the time, or;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Use the elixir to allow me to prepare a different spell instead of doubling up.  That increases my options and just prep something other than cure wounds.</li> </ol>That's the standard for similar abilities.  Empowered evocation only allows for one damage roll too for example.  Most other spellcasters get no bonus at all or only apply the bonus to cantrips and wait to a higher level to get the bonus.  This isn't a weak point because it's slightly better than most casters even if it isn't agonizing blast.I don't follow this one.  I get that it's more times per day for a bigger bonus based on a single stat but proficiency bonus doesn't significantly change that outside of less need for the INT investment because there's no cost at all to proficiency bonus.That spell can work with some builds but it doesn't work well compared to extra attack (armorer, battle smith) and creates a MAD condition that didn't exist (alchemist, artillerist) prior to going with that build.  Band-aiding the self-imposed MAD with infusions is a big opportunity cost on infusions learned and used.It's not but for some reason someone will compare it to a fighter with precision attack, sharpshooter, and crossbow expert.  It's not great damage either, tbf, but it's better than basic cantrip damage.  Basic cantrip damage is not impressive, however, over extra attacks.So can other spells that use the bonus action.  Sanctuary or healing word are bonus action spells, for example.  At low levels it's spells like heat metal or flaming sphere or expeditious retreat.  At high levels it's animate objects or Bigby's hand.There are plenty of spells that use that bonus action.  Just because battle smiths and artillerists have a good built in feature doesn't mean other artificers cannot make good use of that action.  Just because the bonus action isn't being used for damage doesn't mean it's not being used effectively.  ;-)Wait for the SSI too.  It opens up opportunities.Not without concentration, using a higher level slot, and limiting mobility and where the wizard can move.  The flight elixir not using concentration means the alchemist could be using Tasha's caustic brew while also flying and playing pew pew with cantrips.Concentration is a pretty big limitation to bypass.  Elixir's bypass concentration and the SSI works around it a bit.Here's the thing: the random roll doesn't matter because if the player wants to create those opportunities he/she/they will just spend the slot to make it happen.This is what I find playing alchemists over other artificers:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They spend the bonus action on a wider variety of options.  Those options don't cease to exist for other artificers but they tend to focus in other areas.  It's a bit of a variation on decision paralysis.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elixirs that replicate spells means not needing to prepare those spells.  Alchemists will prepare a different spell instead.  For example, levitate and alter self are both on the artificer spell list.  Either the other subclasses give up those options and only the alchemist carries them, or they prepare those spells and the alchemist prepares something else they would lose out on.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Similar to elixirs, restorative reagents means the artificer doesn't need to prepare lesser restoration or use a slot to cast it.  That's a spell other artificers either give up or prepare, and slots they use when it comes up that alchemists spend on something else.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elixirs are definitely not as efficient as armor benefits, cannons, or steel defenders.  </li> </ul>My 2cents. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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