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<blockquote data-quote="amnuxoll" data-source="post: 5426428" data-attributes="member: 13028">I know I'm getting dangerously close to an edition war but I've seen this point made in a couple different threads that many people accept and I don't agree with:&nbsp; &quot;4e is a good game for new players&quot;&nbsp; While I agree that we need this game to appeal to new players (especially younger players!) AND I agree 4e was designed for that purpose, I don't agree that 4e has been particularly successful with that aim.&nbsp; Yes, it's easier to get started playing it, but after that it rapidly becomes almost as much of a rules morass as 2e and 3e.&nbsp; More to the point, I've observed that the burnout rate with 4e is much higher for new players.&nbsp; Luring them in is good, but you've to to keep them too.I think the source of this high burnout rate is that there is a higher barrier to be overcome when using your imagination.&nbsp; In other words, if you have a unique character concept in mind, it's much harder to make a 4e version of it than it is with other editions.&nbsp; As a result, a new player tries out a few tropes (dual-wielding ranger, wise old wizard, fearless fighter, etc.) and then gets stymied when they try to come up with something unique.&nbsp; (The character builder only compounds this problem by making it hard to add custom material.)&nbsp; Another example is adlib in combat.&nbsp; 4e makes you It actually takes an experienced player to overcome this barrier and so, more new players are lost.4e has many strengths as well (please no edition war).&nbsp; Some of the game mechanics are brilliant in their combination of effectiveness and simplicity.&nbsp; The result is that you can focus more on the game and less on the rules and I think that's a big advantage. I just think that it has not been as successful as hoped at luring and keeping new players.&nbsp; Have others observed this as well?:AMN:</blockquote>

[QUOTE="amnuxoll, post: 5426428, member: 13028"] I know I'm getting dangerously close to an edition war but I've seen this point made in a couple different threads that many people accept and I don't agree with: "4e is a good game for new players" While I agree that we need this game to appeal to new players (especially younger players!) AND I agree 4e was designed for that purpose, I [b][i]don't[/i][/b][i][/i] agree that 4e has been particularly successful with that aim. Yes, it's easier to get started playing it, but after that it rapidly becomes almost as much of a rules morass as 2e and 3e. More to the point, I've observed that the burnout rate with 4e is much higher for new players. Luring them in is good, but you've to to keep them too. I think the source of this high burnout rate is that there is a higher barrier to be overcome when using your imagination. In other words, if you have a unique character concept in mind, it's much harder to make a 4e version of it than it is with other editions. As a result, a new player tries out a few tropes (dual-wielding ranger, wise old wizard, fearless fighter, etc.) and then gets stymied when they try to come up with something unique. (The character builder only compounds this problem by making it hard to add custom material.) Another example is adlib in combat. 4e makes you It actually takes an [i]experienced[/i] player to overcome this barrier and so, more new players are lost. 4e has many strengths as well (please no edition war). Some of the game mechanics are brilliant in their combination of effectiveness and simplicity. The result is that you can focus more on the game and less on the rules and I think that's a big advantage. I just think that it has not been as successful as hoped at luring [i]and[/i] keeping new players. Have others observed this as well? :AMN: [/QUOTE]

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