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Best edition for new players: pick any two
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<blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5430669" data-attributes="member: 61155"><p>No offense, but... "You've chosen the wrong class for your concept!"</p><p> </p><p>You can easily create a character that fits this guy, pretty much perfectly, as a ranger. Or probably a decent representation as a barbarian. You may have had other builds that didn't work for them, but I can't imagine them not fitting what you've described right here. </p><p> </p><p>The problem I'm seeing with a lot of your complaints, again, comes down not to 4E being unable to fit your concepts, but it not representing them in an identical mechanical way to a previous edition. </p><p> </p><p>The 4E druid is a shapeshifting caster of primal magic, or a nature priest with an animal companion. Complaining that you can't easily build him as a melee warrior who lurks in trees is, well, like complaining that you couldn't easily do that with a 3rd Edition wizard. Sure, I imagine you can find a way to <em>make </em>it work, but that obviously isn't the best concept for the job.</p><p> </p><p>A new player isn't going to walk into the game and say, "Hey, I want to play a 3.5 melee druid!" - and then be disappointed when he can't. He'll walk in and say, "Hey, I want to play a guy who turns into a leopard" (and they'll direct him to the standard druid) or "Hey, I want to play a guy who thinks he's a leopard and pounces on people from the trees!" (and they'll direct him to the ranger or barbarian.) </p><p> </p><p>That's the main issue here - I don't think new players will find the options lacking. The only ones who really do are those who are looking for specific mechanical constructs they had in former editions. Character concepts themselves are pretty robust, and 4E - these days - has a lot of support for many, many different ideas. </p><p> </p><p>We've shown ways to build pretty much everything you've asked for. The potential is absolutely there. Now, a new players isn't always going to know all these options and how to put it together - but I think, worst case, will still end up with something close to his idea that is effective at what he wants it to do. There is much less chance of trying to build an interesting idea and ending up with something that has significant flaws in actual play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MrMyth, post: 5430669, member: 61155"] No offense, but... "You've chosen the wrong class for your concept!" You can easily create a character that fits this guy, pretty much perfectly, as a ranger. Or probably a decent representation as a barbarian. You may have had other builds that didn't work for them, but I can't imagine them not fitting what you've described right here. The problem I'm seeing with a lot of your complaints, again, comes down not to 4E being unable to fit your concepts, but it not representing them in an identical mechanical way to a previous edition. The 4E druid is a shapeshifting caster of primal magic, or a nature priest with an animal companion. Complaining that you can't easily build him as a melee warrior who lurks in trees is, well, like complaining that you couldn't easily do that with a 3rd Edition wizard. Sure, I imagine you can find a way to [I]make [/I]it work, but that obviously isn't the best concept for the job. A new player isn't going to walk into the game and say, "Hey, I want to play a 3.5 melee druid!" - and then be disappointed when he can't. He'll walk in and say, "Hey, I want to play a guy who turns into a leopard" (and they'll direct him to the standard druid) or "Hey, I want to play a guy who thinks he's a leopard and pounces on people from the trees!" (and they'll direct him to the ranger or barbarian.) That's the main issue here - I don't think new players will find the options lacking. The only ones who really do are those who are looking for specific mechanical constructs they had in former editions. Character concepts themselves are pretty robust, and 4E - these days - has a lot of support for many, many different ideas. We've shown ways to build pretty much everything you've asked for. The potential is absolutely there. Now, a new players isn't always going to know all these options and how to put it together - but I think, worst case, will still end up with something close to his idea that is effective at what he wants it to do. There is much less chance of trying to build an interesting idea and ending up with something that has significant flaws in actual play. [/QUOTE]
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