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<blockquote data-quote="Iron Sheep" data-source="post: 1344307" data-attributes="member: 4965"><p>I hate these sorts of weird number fact problems, and I'm a mathematician! That probably explains why I'm not a number theorist, though. Analysing what the problem says:</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER]</p><p>B's first comment means that neither X nor Y is prime, otherwise B could simply factor and say the answer. So at least one of the numbers must be a composite number.</p><p></p><p>A's response means that no matter how you split the sum (X+Y) as a sum of two numbers A and B greater than 1 and less than 100 (so X+Y = A+B), you never have both numbers A and B prime at the same time, since then A couldn't already be sure that B didn't know the answer. For example, the sum couldn't be 12, since 5+7=12, and 5 and 7 are prime. However 11 does have this property, since 11 = 2+9 = 3+8 = 4+7 = 5+6. Call this property of a number (P).</p><p></p><p>B's second comment means that of all the possible ways of factoring the product only one of them has a sum with property (P).</p><p></p><p>A's second response means that of all the ways to pick A and B to give the same sum as (X+Y), only one of them has just one way of factoring to give a sum with property (P).</p><p></p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>Having determined all that, it's just a matter of going through and exhausting all the possibilities until you find the right one. I threw my computer at the problem, since I didn't feel like using my brain too much, and got the following:</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER]</p><p>The numbers 4 and 13 are a solution. The number A is given is 17, and the number B is given is 52.</p><p></p><p>A knows that B can't immediately tell what the factors are, since 17 = 2+15 = 3+14 = 4+13 = 5+12 = 6+11 = 7+10 = 8+9, and none of those pairs of numbers are both prime.</p><p></p><p>The factorizations of 52 are 2*26 and 4*13. 2+26 = 28, but 28=11+17, which are prime, so A wouldn't have said what he did if the sum was 28.</p><p></p><p>Looking at the other possibilities of products from A's information we have:</p><p></p><p>2*15 = 30, with factors 2*15, 3*10, 5*6. Both 17 (=2+15) and 11 (=5+6) have property (P), so if the product was 30, B wouldn't have known which was right. So A knows the product isn't 30.</p><p></p><p>3*14 = 42, with factors 2*21, 3*14, 6*7. Both 23 (=2+23) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 42.</p><p></p><p>5*12 = 60, with factors 2*30, 3*20, 4*15, 5*12, 6*10. Both 23 (=3+20) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 60.</p><p></p><p>6*11 = 66, with factors 2*33, 3*22, 6*11. Both 35 (=2+33) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 66.</p><p></p><p>7*10 = 70, with factors 2*35, 5*14, 7*10. Both 37 (=2+35) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 70.</p><p></p><p>8*9 = 72, with factors 2*36, 3*24, 4*18, 6*12, 8*9. Both 27 (=3+24) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 72.</p><p></p><p>So the only way that B could have known the factors is if the product was 52, so A knows that the numbers are 4 and 13.</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>I think this one's a bit too tough (mainly because of the size of the solution space you need to search) to throw at your players, unless your players are members of a math olympiad team.</p><p></p><p>Of course there's probably some neat way of seeing the answer quickly.</p><p></p><p>Corran</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Iron Sheep, post: 1344307, member: 4965"] I hate these sorts of weird number fact problems, and I'm a mathematician! That probably explains why I'm not a number theorist, though. Analysing what the problem says: [SPOILER] B's first comment means that neither X nor Y is prime, otherwise B could simply factor and say the answer. So at least one of the numbers must be a composite number. A's response means that no matter how you split the sum (X+Y) as a sum of two numbers A and B greater than 1 and less than 100 (so X+Y = A+B), you never have both numbers A and B prime at the same time, since then A couldn't already be sure that B didn't know the answer. For example, the sum couldn't be 12, since 5+7=12, and 5 and 7 are prime. However 11 does have this property, since 11 = 2+9 = 3+8 = 4+7 = 5+6. Call this property of a number (P). B's second comment means that of all the possible ways of factoring the product only one of them has a sum with property (P). A's second response means that of all the ways to pick A and B to give the same sum as (X+Y), only one of them has just one way of factoring to give a sum with property (P). [/SPOILER] Having determined all that, it's just a matter of going through and exhausting all the possibilities until you find the right one. I threw my computer at the problem, since I didn't feel like using my brain too much, and got the following: [SPOILER] The numbers 4 and 13 are a solution. The number A is given is 17, and the number B is given is 52. A knows that B can't immediately tell what the factors are, since 17 = 2+15 = 3+14 = 4+13 = 5+12 = 6+11 = 7+10 = 8+9, and none of those pairs of numbers are both prime. The factorizations of 52 are 2*26 and 4*13. 2+26 = 28, but 28=11+17, which are prime, so A wouldn't have said what he did if the sum was 28. Looking at the other possibilities of products from A's information we have: 2*15 = 30, with factors 2*15, 3*10, 5*6. Both 17 (=2+15) and 11 (=5+6) have property (P), so if the product was 30, B wouldn't have known which was right. So A knows the product isn't 30. 3*14 = 42, with factors 2*21, 3*14, 6*7. Both 23 (=2+23) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 42. 5*12 = 60, with factors 2*30, 3*20, 4*15, 5*12, 6*10. Both 23 (=3+20) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 60. 6*11 = 66, with factors 2*33, 3*22, 6*11. Both 35 (=2+33) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 66. 7*10 = 70, with factors 2*35, 5*14, 7*10. Both 37 (=2+35) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 70. 8*9 = 72, with factors 2*36, 3*24, 4*18, 6*12, 8*9. Both 27 (=3+24) and 17 (=4+13) have property (P), so A knows that the product isn't 72. So the only way that B could have known the factors is if the product was 52, so A knows that the numbers are 4 and 13. [/SPOILER] I think this one's a bit too tough (mainly because of the size of the solution space you need to search) to throw at your players, unless your players are members of a math olympiad team. Of course there's probably some neat way of seeing the answer quickly. Corran [/QUOTE]
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