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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeremy" data-source="post: 226377" data-attributes="member: 4036">Flame flame everywhere....Hang on a second, lemme go get my Frosty.To the no multi empowers and no cleaves there are numerous rules reasons why the rules say what they say, none of which will convince you because you've locked on to your once phrase in the book that you are going to take literally above all others.That's ok, that's how arguments on this board normally turn out.There is one non-rules point that should make a minor difference to you even if it doesn't sway you.There are numerous people, myself and my group included, that have always thought that it was ruled this way, and when the sage confirmed it we just nodded and kept playing.  It had seemed simple to us from the text---(That's one reason, that so many people read it that way BEFORE the sage said anything).  And it has not unbalanced gameplay.  Cleave and Great Cleave are still somewhat relegated to large strong creatures with reach for it's usefulness and empower spell still doesn't see much use because at 2 and 4 and 6 levels higher than your original spell, you'll find other spell that are incredibly useful.  Why do a double empowered cure moderate when you can do a heal?---(That's the second reason, we've been playing it like this since 3e playtest before the PHB came out and it works fine, so it can't be as gamebreaking as you are saying.)So please, either try it and tell us of how it broke your game, or stop bashing it and simply state that in your games you don't want to run it that way.  Either one is more convincing and less offensive then saying "You all who play it like that way are breaking the game and are all powergamers" because some of us don't feel like powergames and feel it insulting to be called such, and some of us don't feel like our games are broken in any way shape or form.As we are the ones playing with these rules in effect, we are in a much better situation to judge whether or not they are broken then you can by sitting down and thinking of it in theory.  In theory there are a lot of things that would seem to be a lot more powerful than they are.</blockquote>

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