Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Best VTT for the most players?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Torgaard" data-source="post: 8069694" data-attributes="member: 6679168"><p>Ya, we've used Fantasy Grounds for going on what - almost 10 years? We've recently started playing around with Foundry VTT while waiting for Fantasy Grounds Unity to stabilize. Just kinda thought Foundry looked cool so, we figured we just play around with it a little. Fantasy Grounds is near and dear to my heart, but I have to admit - Foundry has incredible potential - and much of it has already been manifested in a shockingly short amount of time.</p><p></p><p>Ok, that's the tl&dr. Here's a more detailed breakdown from my perspective.</p><p></p><p><strong>Fantasy Grounds</strong> - So one thing most people consistently don't "get" about FG is its core feature; the thing that makes it so amazing. It's not a mapping thing (or lack thereof), it's not support for all the systems, it's not all the little options and content here there, none of that. It's the Combat Tracker. It's all about the Combat Tracker. It's the Combat Tracker's ability to automate and track damn near anything and almost everything you'd ever want to track, and do it without needing to practically learn a programming language or make hideously complex macros (to me). That being said, it does have its own little - what - automation syntax and interface(?) that can be daunting, but I'd argue it's way, <strong>WAY</strong> easier to learn than it is to learn how to make a macro on some tables. Once you learn to use the maybe 50 automation keywords (ie an 'ADVATK' effect placed on my character in the Combat Tracker will now automatically roll Advantage for me, etc), your sessions become a bliss of unneeded busywork. Everything else in Fantasy Grounds is ok, bordering on pretty dated - but the Combat Tracker more than makes up for every possible shortcoming.</p><p></p><p><strong>Foundry VTT</strong> - This product is pretty amazing to me, but these next months to a year in its development cycle are critical. It's core functionality is superb. For virtual tabletops, it's pretty cutting edge with its feature set. It has so many of the quality of life, cool factor tweaks I've wanted. But its true genius lies in its very open and (apparently) <em>extremely</em> flexible API. This allows the community - IF you're basically a programmer/developer by trade - to design an already staggering amount of add-on features and content. From the community created modules out there already, I have already seen it do things I could only have dreamed of with Fantasy Grounds - and it's easy to see these things and say to yourself, "Holy crap - if this guy could make a module to do <em>this, </em>then he/she (or somebody) could certainly do <em>THIS</em> - and that would be stunningly useful and cool-as-hell!" </p><p></p><p>The problem is threefold so far:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">First, while there is a "Knowledge Base", a Reddit, Discord, etc to try to figure Foundry VTT (5E) out - it's just so all-over-the-place, and the information is just all too brief or broad in the places you find it. For me, it's a continual exercise in scouring the web trying to find expanded, more detailed answers to soooo many questions. It's fairly frustrating. This thing desperately needs a large, detailed wiki with (alot of) examples, screenshots, video tutorials - the works. The developer of Foundry certainly has enough on his plate, so a (bigger) wiki supported by the community seems ideal.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The second thing kinda ties in with the first. While the community is developing so many absolutely amazing add-on modules, they <em>frequently</em> suffer from something that often happens when a developer is the sole entity designing things like this - it's easy to use for <em>them</em>, and makes sense to <em>them</em>, because they're a developer and they developed this module - but the time and/or (frankly) understanding of how to design something so that it's <u>intuitive</u> or even understandable to Joe User is a frequent hurdle that's often insurmountable. I'll download some module, see its wondrous potential, but then try to parse out how-the-heck to use the thing from the developers write-up on github and be like, "Wait - wut?" - over and over and over. It's like dying of thirst, seeing that beautiful mirage in the distance, but it is always so tantalizingly out-of-reach. Message to Foundry VTT community developers: I dig what you are doing so much, you are all officially in my Cool Book, I am so impossibly grateful, but please - <strong>PLEASE</strong> - always, <em>always</em> design a UI for your module that is specifically designed so that a complete moron (like me) could figure it out. Seriously. If you ever say to yourself, "Well - there's no way I'd need to make this part of the UI <em>that </em>simple - nobody is <em>that</em> dumb" - STOP! Yes, you absolutely do need to make it that dumb. Every time you think that. Also - and I know this is a time consuming pain, and a big ask - but detailed writeups on how to use it, with as many examples as you can stomach, with screenshots, videos, etc - all of it written so a 12 year old could figure it out, would bring a tear to my eye.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Finally, it goes back to what makes Fantasy Grounds so superb: the Combat Tracker and automation for the Combat Tracker. Foundry just doesn't have it (yet). Foundry's core CT basically tracks Initiative and cycles through the turn order. You can roll attacks and apply damage with it of course. There's a little bit more, but nothing very useful. I'm confident Foundry would quickly become a dominant force in the market if it made that next step. An easy way to put Conditions (incapacitated, stunned, etc) on actors on the CT, but then take the next step and build in a UI where you can add duration (ie expires in 1 round) and automates the rolls when rolling against those Conditions (ie if I attack someone who's stunned and has that condition/effect on them in the Combat Tracker, I should have Advantage, so Foundry automatically has me roll w/Advantage when I attack them). Then add the ability to create my own automated effects for anything. Example: I need to (easily) create an effect for <em>bless</em> that - when dropped onto a token for a party member - will tell the Combat Tracker to (a) keep it on them for 1 minute, show a little symbol or text on them so I know it's there, and remove it if the casters concentration is broken, and (b) give that actor +1d4 to hit and saves, and make those rolls automatically. Then take it further, and allow that kind of functionality for dang near anything. There's a module called "Dynamic Effects" that's a good start, but it's kind of a "push only" thing right now: I can trigger automation for <em>bless</em> on party members, but I can't put something like "Has Disadvantage" on enemy who is stunned, so that anyone attacking that enemy automatically rolls with Advantage (ie "pull" back some automation).</li> </ul><p>Nutshell: If Foundry VTT had Fantasy Grounds Combat Tracker, it would be without a doubt; the best virtual tabletop on the market. Period. I feel certain it's going to get there - hopefully soon - and even in its current state it's an impressive product. We're using it, and will continue to use it for the time being - but it's going to need to get me to that Combat Tracker automation level to keep me there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Torgaard, post: 8069694, member: 6679168"] Ya, we've used Fantasy Grounds for going on what - almost 10 years? We've recently started playing around with Foundry VTT while waiting for Fantasy Grounds Unity to stabilize. Just kinda thought Foundry looked cool so, we figured we just play around with it a little. Fantasy Grounds is near and dear to my heart, but I have to admit - Foundry has incredible potential - and much of it has already been manifested in a shockingly short amount of time. Ok, that's the tl&dr. Here's a more detailed breakdown from my perspective. [B]Fantasy Grounds[/B] - So one thing most people consistently don't "get" about FG is its core feature; the thing that makes it so amazing. It's not a mapping thing (or lack thereof), it's not support for all the systems, it's not all the little options and content here there, none of that. It's the Combat Tracker. It's all about the Combat Tracker. It's the Combat Tracker's ability to automate and track damn near anything and almost everything you'd ever want to track, and do it without needing to practically learn a programming language or make hideously complex macros (to me). That being said, it does have its own little - what - automation syntax and interface(?) that can be daunting, but I'd argue it's way, [B]WAY[/B] easier to learn than it is to learn how to make a macro on some tables. Once you learn to use the maybe 50 automation keywords (ie an 'ADVATK' effect placed on my character in the Combat Tracker will now automatically roll Advantage for me, etc), your sessions become a bliss of unneeded busywork. Everything else in Fantasy Grounds is ok, bordering on pretty dated - but the Combat Tracker more than makes up for every possible shortcoming. [B]Foundry VTT[/B] - This product is pretty amazing to me, but these next months to a year in its development cycle are critical. It's core functionality is superb. For virtual tabletops, it's pretty cutting edge with its feature set. It has so many of the quality of life, cool factor tweaks I've wanted. But its true genius lies in its very open and (apparently) [I]extremely[/I] flexible API. This allows the community - IF you're basically a programmer/developer by trade - to design an already staggering amount of add-on features and content. From the community created modules out there already, I have already seen it do things I could only have dreamed of with Fantasy Grounds - and it's easy to see these things and say to yourself, "Holy crap - if this guy could make a module to do [I]this, [/I]then he/she (or somebody) could certainly do [I]THIS[/I] - and that would be stunningly useful and cool-as-hell!" The problem is threefold so far: [LIST] [*]First, while there is a "Knowledge Base", a Reddit, Discord, etc to try to figure Foundry VTT (5E) out - it's just so all-over-the-place, and the information is just all too brief or broad in the places you find it. For me, it's a continual exercise in scouring the web trying to find expanded, more detailed answers to soooo many questions. It's fairly frustrating. This thing desperately needs a large, detailed wiki with (alot of) examples, screenshots, video tutorials - the works. The developer of Foundry certainly has enough on his plate, so a (bigger) wiki supported by the community seems ideal. [*]The second thing kinda ties in with the first. While the community is developing so many absolutely amazing add-on modules, they [I]frequently[/I] suffer from something that often happens when a developer is the sole entity designing things like this - it's easy to use for [I]them[/I], and makes sense to [I]them[/I], because they're a developer and they developed this module - but the time and/or (frankly) understanding of how to design something so that it's [U]intuitive[/U] or even understandable to Joe User is a frequent hurdle that's often insurmountable. I'll download some module, see its wondrous potential, but then try to parse out how-the-heck to use the thing from the developers write-up on github and be like, "Wait - wut?" - over and over and over. It's like dying of thirst, seeing that beautiful mirage in the distance, but it is always so tantalizingly out-of-reach. Message to Foundry VTT community developers: I dig what you are doing so much, you are all officially in my Cool Book, I am so impossibly grateful, but please - [B]PLEASE[/B] - always, [I]always[/I] design a UI for your module that is specifically designed so that a complete moron (like me) could figure it out. Seriously. If you ever say to yourself, "Well - there's no way I'd need to make this part of the UI [I]that [/I]simple - nobody is [I]that[/I] dumb" - STOP! Yes, you absolutely do need to make it that dumb. Every time you think that. Also - and I know this is a time consuming pain, and a big ask - but detailed writeups on how to use it, with as many examples as you can stomach, with screenshots, videos, etc - all of it written so a 12 year old could figure it out, would bring a tear to my eye. [*]Finally, it goes back to what makes Fantasy Grounds so superb: the Combat Tracker and automation for the Combat Tracker. Foundry just doesn't have it (yet). Foundry's core CT basically tracks Initiative and cycles through the turn order. You can roll attacks and apply damage with it of course. There's a little bit more, but nothing very useful. I'm confident Foundry would quickly become a dominant force in the market if it made that next step. An easy way to put Conditions (incapacitated, stunned, etc) on actors on the CT, but then take the next step and build in a UI where you can add duration (ie expires in 1 round) and automates the rolls when rolling against those Conditions (ie if I attack someone who's stunned and has that condition/effect on them in the Combat Tracker, I should have Advantage, so Foundry automatically has me roll w/Advantage when I attack them). Then add the ability to create my own automated effects for anything. Example: I need to (easily) create an effect for [I]bless[/I] that - when dropped onto a token for a party member - will tell the Combat Tracker to (a) keep it on them for 1 minute, show a little symbol or text on them so I know it's there, and remove it if the casters concentration is broken, and (b) give that actor +1d4 to hit and saves, and make those rolls automatically. Then take it further, and allow that kind of functionality for dang near anything. There's a module called "Dynamic Effects" that's a good start, but it's kind of a "push only" thing right now: I can trigger automation for [I]bless[/I] on party members, but I can't put something like "Has Disadvantage" on enemy who is stunned, so that anyone attacking that enemy automatically rolls with Advantage (ie "pull" back some automation). [/LIST] Nutshell: If Foundry VTT had Fantasy Grounds Combat Tracker, it would be without a doubt; the best virtual tabletop on the market. Period. I feel certain it's going to get there - hopefully soon - and even in its current state it's an impressive product. We're using it, and will continue to use it for the time being - but it's going to need to get me to that Combat Tracker automation level to keep me there. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Best VTT for the most players?
Top