Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1668148" data-attributes="member: 3146">No I'm not assuming critical hits.3rd level NPC rogue. Str 12, Dex 16. Feats, improved initiative, two weapon fighting, weapon finesse.In the surprise round, he will attack once at +5 for 1d6+1 plus 2d6 sneak attack.If he wins initiative in the normal round, he will attack twice at +3 for 1d6+1 and 2d6 sneak attack on the primary hand and +3 for 1d6 and 2d6 sneak attack on the off-hand.If he hits with all attacks, he will deal 9d6+2 points of non-lethal damage.Of course, assuming all hits is a bad assumption. Against AC 17 (first level fighter with chain mail and a large shield or a second level fighter with banded mail and a buckler or with half-plate), he'll average about 13 points of non-lethal damage. That will take down most first level PCs and will place second level PCs in real danger of going down. Against PC rogues (lower hp, weaker armor, no uncanny dodge till level 4 but significantly more likely to win initiative in the full round action or notice the hidden rogues), they're likely to knock them out before their action if they gain surprise and win initiative in round one. Against wizards, knocking them out is pretty much a foregone conclusion.Saps wielded by rogues are plenty deadly enough in D&amp;D. If you want a system that allows saps a percentage or save based chance to knock the PCs out then you probably want a system that allows greatswords a similar chance of simply killing someone. After all, I would expect that being struck by the sharp end of a flamberge is &quot;realistically&quot; at least as likely to kill someone as being struck by a sock full of pennies is &quot;realistically&quot; likely to knock them out.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 1668148, member: 3146"] No I'm not assuming critical hits. 3rd level NPC rogue. Str 12, Dex 16. Feats, improved initiative, two weapon fighting, weapon finesse. In the surprise round, he will attack once at +5 for 1d6+1 plus 2d6 sneak attack. If he wins initiative in the normal round, he will attack twice at +3 for 1d6+1 and 2d6 sneak attack on the primary hand and +3 for 1d6 and 2d6 sneak attack on the off-hand. If he hits with all attacks, he will deal 9d6+2 points of non-lethal damage. Of course, assuming all hits is a bad assumption. Against AC 17 (first level fighter with chain mail and a large shield or a second level fighter with banded mail and a buckler or with half-plate), he'll average about 13 points of non-lethal damage. That will take down most first level PCs and will place second level PCs in real danger of going down. Against PC rogues (lower hp, weaker armor, no uncanny dodge till level 4 but significantly more likely to win initiative in the full round action or notice the hidden rogues), they're likely to knock them out before their action if they gain surprise and win initiative in round one. Against wizards, knocking them out is pretty much a foregone conclusion. Saps wielded by rogues are plenty deadly enough in D&D. If you want a system that allows saps a percentage or save based chance to knock the PCs out then you probably want a system that allows greatswords a similar chance of simply killing someone. After all, I would expect that being struck by the sharp end of a flamberge is "realistically" at least as likely to kill someone as being struck by a sock full of pennies is "realistically" likely to knock them out. [/QUOTE]

Verification