Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"Better" Combat Systems in RPGs - Feedback Welcome!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 8075060" data-attributes="member: 32164"><p>Great feedback and thoughts guys! I know I have my own biases, but I am trying to make a system that can be tailored. In the end, I may end up designing a new RPG around it, but if it works as intended, I may also include rules to make it a usable add-on/plug-in for, say, <em>D&D</em> and <em>Savage Worlds</em>. So, back to our regular programming...</p><p></p><p><strong>Movement, Stunts, Tricks and Zones:</strong></p><p>From my personal experience, melee combat is highly dynamic. As Mohammed Ali put it, you have to "float like a butterfly, and sting like a bee" if you want to win. Standing still for more than a moment will get you creamed. So, what does that mean for rules?</p><p></p><p>1. Simply put, there's no benefit for just standing still with a melee weapon. With ranged weapons, there should probably be some kind of benefit for "aiming." That's logical, intuitive and pretty straight-forward.</p><p></p><p>2. Typically, a character is splitting their energy and attention between moving, attacking, and defending. The best way to handle this is, in my opinion, have the following options "Defend," "All-Out Attack," and "Flee."</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Defend" is like D&D's Total Defense or Savage Worlds' "Defend" - you forego attacks for a higher defense.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"All-Out Attack" takes the place of D&D's "Full Attack" or SW's "Wild Attack" - you forego defense for a better attack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Flee" is withdrawing from combat - you forego attacks for a defended escape - Normal Defense but better movement.</li> </ul><p>3. Zones - I first encountered Zones in Monte Cook's Iron Heroes, where they were a way of letting non-magical characters do cool stuff with the environment. Some examples of zones:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Terrain/obstacles that requires characters to make some kind of check to keep their footing or move as normal.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ropes, Chandeliers or the like that a character can use to increase their movement rate/bypass an opponent or the like.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Damaging zones, such as a fire pit, cliff, pit, or something similar.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Areas that provide some form of cover.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Objects that can be pressed into service as cover or used as improvised weapons (tables, chairs, liquor bottles, etc.).</li> </ul><p>4. Stunts or Tricks - I like the idea of giving PCs the ability to pull off tricks that can impose certain conditions on their opponents, such as a disarm, push, or trip or making a skill check in order to move further, impose some penalty on your opponent, or gain some benefit to an attack. In a way, Stunts are like player-initiated Zones, and the two things should have a similar resolution mechanic - a combat/skill test to either gain a benefit, impose a penalty, or inflict some kind of damage.</p><p></p><p>5. Aside about "multiple actions" - The best way to handle multiple actions (IMO), is to impose a penalty to all actions for choosing to take more than one significant action in combat. How many multiple actions? I'd say 3, with increasing penalties the more actions you take. Why 3? Because it's enough to feel like a lot, it's few enough not to bog down combat, and it's a semi-realistic number of distinct actions to pull off in 6-10 seconds. Moving outside of medieval technology, semi-automatic firearms could complicate this a little bit, but I think that's rectifiable with good firearms rules.</p><p></p><p>The thing I like about these systems is that none of them <em>require</em> the use of a combat grid. By abstracting combat, but providing interesting options, you encourage players to do clever things. Characters in a gunfight or subject to arrow fire <em>should</em> seek out cover if it's available. Swordfighters who are at a disadvantage should try to get to the other side of a table. As a DM, I like the idea of coming up with more interesting areas for combats to occur, but I also want to support players coming up with something that I, as the DM didn't think of.</p><p></p><p>As an aside, there's few easy ways to think about incorporating this mechanically, by allowing the player to spend an</p><p>"Action Point" to, for example, offset the penalty for extra actions. Or you could have a feat or edge called, say, "Swashbuckler" that allowed a character to take one free non-attack action without a penalty. Or one that separately enabled that for attacks. A DM who wanted more "swashbuckling action" could just allow that edge to all PCs, and so on.</p><p></p><p>That's all the thoughts I have for now. Can't remember what I said would be next after this. I'll figure out what topic I think makes sense and post about that next.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 8075060, member: 32164"] Great feedback and thoughts guys! I know I have my own biases, but I am trying to make a system that can be tailored. In the end, I may end up designing a new RPG around it, but if it works as intended, I may also include rules to make it a usable add-on/plug-in for, say, [I]D&D[/I] and [I]Savage Worlds[/I]. So, back to our regular programming... [B]Movement, Stunts, Tricks and Zones:[/B] From my personal experience, melee combat is highly dynamic. As Mohammed Ali put it, you have to "float like a butterfly, and sting like a bee" if you want to win. Standing still for more than a moment will get you creamed. So, what does that mean for rules? 1. Simply put, there's no benefit for just standing still with a melee weapon. With ranged weapons, there should probably be some kind of benefit for "aiming." That's logical, intuitive and pretty straight-forward. 2. Typically, a character is splitting their energy and attention between moving, attacking, and defending. The best way to handle this is, in my opinion, have the following options "Defend," "All-Out Attack," and "Flee." [LIST] [*]"Defend" is like D&D's Total Defense or Savage Worlds' "Defend" - you forego attacks for a higher defense. [*]"All-Out Attack" takes the place of D&D's "Full Attack" or SW's "Wild Attack" - you forego defense for a better attack. [*]"Flee" is withdrawing from combat - you forego attacks for a defended escape - Normal Defense but better movement. [/LIST] 3. Zones - I first encountered Zones in Monte Cook's Iron Heroes, where they were a way of letting non-magical characters do cool stuff with the environment. Some examples of zones: [LIST] [*]Terrain/obstacles that requires characters to make some kind of check to keep their footing or move as normal. [*]Ropes, Chandeliers or the like that a character can use to increase their movement rate/bypass an opponent or the like. [*]Damaging zones, such as a fire pit, cliff, pit, or something similar. [*]Areas that provide some form of cover. [*]Objects that can be pressed into service as cover or used as improvised weapons (tables, chairs, liquor bottles, etc.). [/LIST] 4. Stunts or Tricks - I like the idea of giving PCs the ability to pull off tricks that can impose certain conditions on their opponents, such as a disarm, push, or trip or making a skill check in order to move further, impose some penalty on your opponent, or gain some benefit to an attack. In a way, Stunts are like player-initiated Zones, and the two things should have a similar resolution mechanic - a combat/skill test to either gain a benefit, impose a penalty, or inflict some kind of damage. 5. Aside about "multiple actions" - The best way to handle multiple actions (IMO), is to impose a penalty to all actions for choosing to take more than one significant action in combat. How many multiple actions? I'd say 3, with increasing penalties the more actions you take. Why 3? Because it's enough to feel like a lot, it's few enough not to bog down combat, and it's a semi-realistic number of distinct actions to pull off in 6-10 seconds. Moving outside of medieval technology, semi-automatic firearms could complicate this a little bit, but I think that's rectifiable with good firearms rules. The thing I like about these systems is that none of them [I]require[/I] the use of a combat grid. By abstracting combat, but providing interesting options, you encourage players to do clever things. Characters in a gunfight or subject to arrow fire [I]should[/I] seek out cover if it's available. Swordfighters who are at a disadvantage should try to get to the other side of a table. As a DM, I like the idea of coming up with more interesting areas for combats to occur, but I also want to support players coming up with something that I, as the DM didn't think of. As an aside, there's few easy ways to think about incorporating this mechanically, by allowing the player to spend an "Action Point" to, for example, offset the penalty for extra actions. Or you could have a feat or edge called, say, "Swashbuckler" that allowed a character to take one free non-attack action without a penalty. Or one that separately enabled that for attacks. A DM who wanted more "swashbuckling action" could just allow that edge to all PCs, and so on. That's all the thoughts I have for now. Can't remember what I said would be next after this. I'll figure out what topic I think makes sense and post about that next. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
"Better" Combat Systems in RPGs - Feedback Welcome!
Top