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"Better" Combat Systems in RPGs - Feedback Welcome!
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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 8077061" data-attributes="member: 32164"><p>Full Disclosure: I've read<em> Savage Worlds</em> extensively, but while we were about to start our game when the pandemic hit, I haven't actually played or run a game. But I've been active on the PEG boards, so...</p><p></p><p>1) Toughness = 2 + Half Vigor + Armor. So yes, you can absolutely roll low enough for damage that the hit isn't "serious." These things represent nicks, lacerations, bruises and scrapes. Non-serious injuries aren't "wounds" in <em>Savage Worlds</em>. Success on a damage check only means that a character is "Shaken," which means the damage has gotten past the character's armor and natural resilience. Only a raise inflicts a wound (or, as of the new edition, given "Shaken" to a character who's already "Shaken". This is how <em>Savage Worlds</em> deals with both protection due to armor and the concept of resilience that's hidden in a Hit Point system.</p><p></p><p>As an aside, I've also spoken to some people who've studied what information is available about professional Roman Gladiators, and this models them rather well. Professional Gladiators were specifically conditioned so that they could take multiple bleeding injuries (for the spectacle of it) without being in any mortal danger (i.e. "High Toughness"). That sort of damage would often heal in a few days. Only when they took serious injuries (wounds) would they be sidelined for a while.</p><p></p><p>2) It sounds like the boss, as a Wildcard, used a Benny to "Soak" the damage. And yes, that's absolutely a thing (although it takes a successful Vigor check). But it's one of the few ways that characters can avoid going down to a single lucky shot, so it's a balancing element. The best cinematic example of this I can give is Inigo shrugging off Rugen's thrown dagger to his belly in the climactic fight in <em>The Princess Bride</em>. You do have to make a check to pull it off, and Bennies are a limited resource, so he wouldn't be able to <em>keep</em> doing that. Finding the right balance of "How many Bennies" is something that I've been told every table has to discover for themselves - because it comes down to personal taste.</p><p></p><p>I will say that the system in <em>Savage Worlds</em> is designed to encourage characters to use tests and other things to try to lower their opponent's trait checks, rather than just slugging it out with Fighting checks versus their Parry (i.e. use Tests to make a character Distracted or Vulnerable, try making an All-Out Attack, etc.).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I concur completely. And as I said in a previous post, OpenD6 has 2 optional damage systems, one that just tracks wounds and the other of which tracks wounds as a feature of declining "Body Points" (which are mostly just Hit Points by a different name, but with some of the abstraction taken out).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I concur. I hate the term "Death Spiral," because I think it's "A Good Thing"(TM) that the character starts to become less effective, because it encourages <em>the player(s)</em> to sometimes think "This isn't going well - naughty word, maybe I/we should run..."</p><p></p><p>And, IMO, that's not a bad thing. It would also help a caster PC feel really good about spending the energy on mid-combat healing magic. Because it could make the difference between your team having to quit the field and being able to keep the fight going. And that's cool.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a pretty cool read. I'm not sure I like the idea of all that happening in one round, so I hope it represents multiple rounds of a single duel.</p><p></p><p>And on your last point, I dunno. If helmets never prevented damage, people wouldn't have worn them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 8077061, member: 32164"] Full Disclosure: I've read[I] Savage Worlds[/I] extensively, but while we were about to start our game when the pandemic hit, I haven't actually played or run a game. But I've been active on the PEG boards, so... 1) Toughness = 2 + Half Vigor + Armor. So yes, you can absolutely roll low enough for damage that the hit isn't "serious." These things represent nicks, lacerations, bruises and scrapes. Non-serious injuries aren't "wounds" in [I]Savage Worlds[/I]. Success on a damage check only means that a character is "Shaken," which means the damage has gotten past the character's armor and natural resilience. Only a raise inflicts a wound (or, as of the new edition, given "Shaken" to a character who's already "Shaken". This is how [I]Savage Worlds[/I] deals with both protection due to armor and the concept of resilience that's hidden in a Hit Point system. As an aside, I've also spoken to some people who've studied what information is available about professional Roman Gladiators, and this models them rather well. Professional Gladiators were specifically conditioned so that they could take multiple bleeding injuries (for the spectacle of it) without being in any mortal danger (i.e. "High Toughness"). That sort of damage would often heal in a few days. Only when they took serious injuries (wounds) would they be sidelined for a while. 2) It sounds like the boss, as a Wildcard, used a Benny to "Soak" the damage. And yes, that's absolutely a thing (although it takes a successful Vigor check). But it's one of the few ways that characters can avoid going down to a single lucky shot, so it's a balancing element. The best cinematic example of this I can give is Inigo shrugging off Rugen's thrown dagger to his belly in the climactic fight in [I]The Princess Bride[/I]. You do have to make a check to pull it off, and Bennies are a limited resource, so he wouldn't be able to [I]keep[/I] doing that. Finding the right balance of "How many Bennies" is something that I've been told every table has to discover for themselves - because it comes down to personal taste. I will say that the system in [I]Savage Worlds[/I] is designed to encourage characters to use tests and other things to try to lower their opponent's trait checks, rather than just slugging it out with Fighting checks versus their Parry (i.e. use Tests to make a character Distracted or Vulnerable, try making an All-Out Attack, etc.). I concur completely. And as I said in a previous post, OpenD6 has 2 optional damage systems, one that just tracks wounds and the other of which tracks wounds as a feature of declining "Body Points" (which are mostly just Hit Points by a different name, but with some of the abstraction taken out). I concur. I hate the term "Death Spiral," because I think it's "A Good Thing"(TM) that the character starts to become less effective, because it encourages [I]the player(s)[/I] to sometimes think "This isn't going well - naughty word, maybe I/we should run..." And, IMO, that's not a bad thing. It would also help a caster PC feel really good about spending the energy on mid-combat healing magic. Because it could make the difference between your team having to quit the field and being able to keep the fight going. And that's cool. That's a pretty cool read. I'm not sure I like the idea of all that happening in one round, so I hope it represents multiple rounds of a single duel. And on your last point, I dunno. If helmets never prevented damage, people wouldn't have worn them. [/QUOTE]
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