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Better Fighter?
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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7171301" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Stream of conscientiousness read:</p><p></p><p>Unique core mechanic ... most classes don't have a primary focus around a unique mechanic. For example, most of the full casters are "I can cast spells, just like 2/3 of the other classes". Rogue SA is the only one I can think of. Sure there are plenty of smaller unique mechanics, like bardic inspiration, but having fun in a class is not about having to memorize a new subsystem.</p><p></p><p>Superiority dice ... issues with the gamist balance point of limited resources per rest. Some issues with overlap with feats and not handling it consistantly.</p><p></p><p>Action Surge - one of the most fun fighter abilities as well as most potent. Able to do what no others can (oh look, unique mechanic) and take advantage fo whatever fleeting optortunity there is, they can really bring home the bacon. It also already scales fantastically because every single other ability is a force multiplier for it. Comparing it's frequency to a much weaker power means nothing.</p><p></p><p>Meta-thought: Okay, I'm really finding myself on the defensive. So far, I don't find your design goals as adding, and in some cases subtracting, from the fighter. Instead of this, let's jump ahead to the action and see what's really there.</p><p></p><p>Class Identity - now this part I like. Strong subclass identity would be something I would enjoy for the fighter.</p><p></p><p>Unique Core Mechanic - oh my god. Reaction, already a hotly contested action resource, is where you want to hang your specialness? Okay, will read forward with the idea that I am already using a reaction two turns out of three between OAs and feats. So call it one reaction per combat I have to spare.</p><p></p><p>Indomitable - far too easy to cherry-pick, no one has a full negation that early. Heck, it takes a legendary creature to get an auto-succeed. Comparing it to a 14th level monk power that you need to spend a limited resource that competes with using that resource for offense, and still only gives a reroll, is just bonkers. Horrible power, and ridiculous level to get it at.</p><p></p><p>Action Surge & Double time - okay, not ruined, whew. Pretty good.</p><p></p><p>Unyielding - mechanically fine. But early on talking about superiority dice you focused on about how limited uses per rest doesn't fit the narrative, I don't get how doubling down with that type of usage fits your goals. Make it something else - you can benefit from extra uses but it costs HD or a level of exhaustion after the battle or something. Follow the goals you put out.</p><p></p><p>Ah, now the actual class breakout.</p><p></p><p>Combat reflexes at 9th - ah, two reactions a round. Fits well with the Extra Attack (2) and action surge - fighters are the best at getting actions.</p><p></p><p>Knight subclass</p><p></p><p>Knight's Charge - how does this work, are you shouting out a warning? Because that would give away your location if sneaking, etc. Do you need to be able to see them as well or does it work if you are blinded? How does this satisfy the "bigger numbers aren't fun"?</p><p></p><p>Knight's Intercept - ah, now we're getting to a real Knight Protector mechanic. Good, so the previous was just a set-up.</p><p></p><p>Noble Influence - No problems with the skills and possible expertise, though the UA abilities that give more are proficiency or expertise. However this gives more as well. Looks like it gives the help action, but you can be drunk and playing cards and they still get it. Not sure how that fits any narrative. If I thought granting two skills / expertise needed more power I might suggest allowing you to take the help action as a bonus action for your charge for any skill they are doing.</p><p></p><p>Knight's Inspiration - reasonable until you factor in the horrible mess of Indomitable, at which point it becomes unreasonable. Also, WHAT IS THE NARRATIVE? You talked about that earlier, and now you not only aren't following it but seem to intentionally be stomping it into the dust. "Well, an hour ago I saved vs. turning to stone, so now you auto save against this fireball."</p><p></p><p>Knight's Vengeance - I'm worried about this being too much of a multiplier since your attack already gets all the other boosts to attacks, but hey, it's high level, let's go for it.</p><p></p><p>Knight's Banner - excellent! this is thematic and fun. I'd probably make it an aura though, otherwise you can make an entire army your charge, have a weak ally cast a spell so you can make a save, and give 1000 men an auto-success on their next save.</p><p></p><p>Mercenary subclass</p><p></p><p>Versatile combatant - fine. Some may quibble that donnign a shield takes an action but I'm fine with ti. lets you go ranged then change to melee or adjust what you have. I like how it encourages you to think more then just "this is the oen weapon I use".</p><p></p><p>For the Right Price - same about the skills. Absolutely and completely not about the last ability. You don't get to magically (well, non-magically) put people out of business by doubling how much they have to pay out. Want advantage on rolls for pay, sure.</p><p></p><p>That was a mistake - Quite flavorful. I'd give this a slight buff so you don't lose it. "When you hit with a weapon or unarmed, you gain a damage bonus ...". Though in rereading it it seems to can save against something and say 'that was a mistake" to someone else. It's flavorful if it's whomever you just saved against.</p><p></p><p>Ready for action - just fine. Though amusingly if I have out a greataxe and you close with me, I can attack you with any of my weapons - except that greataxe. Seems to break narrative that I can't hit you with my ready weapon.</p><p></p><p>Kensei</p><p></p><p>Iaijutsu - like it. Might expand it to unarmed attacks as well - you can still parry a wolf's bite.</p><p></p><p>Of Mind & Mastery - come on, where's the narrative? where the idea "bigger numbers aren't fun". This fails your goals.</p><p></p><p>This isn't over - fine, unless you can auto-save on this with indominable, in which case no freaking way.</p><p></p><p>Scout</p><p></p><p>Duck and Cover - interesting.</p><p></p><p>Distraction - I know your 10th level are "succeed on save" abilities, but as a trigger it really makes no sense. Why is making your save, vs. anything else you do including failing your save, so distracting? And laser-focused distracting - it can distract multiple foes, but only in regards to a single ally. Again, what's the narrative, including why do similar narratives fail? This seems like you are trying to shoehorn it in to be the exact triggering mechanic even if that's not the best way to represent this ability.</p><p></p><p>====</p><p><strong>Conclusion:</strong></p><p></p><p>I like how you expanded out that fighters are the best at getting more actions.</p><p></p><p>I miss superiority dice. They are a unique fighter mechanic and the justification why they are no good you violate time and again in what you have here.</p><p></p><p>Indomitably needs to go away hard.</p><p></p><p>Many of these seems to be features that follow a mechanical vision but fail on your goal of providing a strong in-game narrative for how it works. If that's one of your goals (and I agree with it), then I'd revisit a number of these.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7171301, member: 20564"] Stream of conscientiousness read: Unique core mechanic ... most classes don't have a primary focus around a unique mechanic. For example, most of the full casters are "I can cast spells, just like 2/3 of the other classes". Rogue SA is the only one I can think of. Sure there are plenty of smaller unique mechanics, like bardic inspiration, but having fun in a class is not about having to memorize a new subsystem. Superiority dice ... issues with the gamist balance point of limited resources per rest. Some issues with overlap with feats and not handling it consistantly. Action Surge - one of the most fun fighter abilities as well as most potent. Able to do what no others can (oh look, unique mechanic) and take advantage fo whatever fleeting optortunity there is, they can really bring home the bacon. It also already scales fantastically because every single other ability is a force multiplier for it. Comparing it's frequency to a much weaker power means nothing. Meta-thought: Okay, I'm really finding myself on the defensive. So far, I don't find your design goals as adding, and in some cases subtracting, from the fighter. Instead of this, let's jump ahead to the action and see what's really there. Class Identity - now this part I like. Strong subclass identity would be something I would enjoy for the fighter. Unique Core Mechanic - oh my god. Reaction, already a hotly contested action resource, is where you want to hang your specialness? Okay, will read forward with the idea that I am already using a reaction two turns out of three between OAs and feats. So call it one reaction per combat I have to spare. Indomitable - far too easy to cherry-pick, no one has a full negation that early. Heck, it takes a legendary creature to get an auto-succeed. Comparing it to a 14th level monk power that you need to spend a limited resource that competes with using that resource for offense, and still only gives a reroll, is just bonkers. Horrible power, and ridiculous level to get it at. Action Surge & Double time - okay, not ruined, whew. Pretty good. Unyielding - mechanically fine. But early on talking about superiority dice you focused on about how limited uses per rest doesn't fit the narrative, I don't get how doubling down with that type of usage fits your goals. Make it something else - you can benefit from extra uses but it costs HD or a level of exhaustion after the battle or something. Follow the goals you put out. Ah, now the actual class breakout. Combat reflexes at 9th - ah, two reactions a round. Fits well with the Extra Attack (2) and action surge - fighters are the best at getting actions. Knight subclass Knight's Charge - how does this work, are you shouting out a warning? Because that would give away your location if sneaking, etc. Do you need to be able to see them as well or does it work if you are blinded? How does this satisfy the "bigger numbers aren't fun"? Knight's Intercept - ah, now we're getting to a real Knight Protector mechanic. Good, so the previous was just a set-up. Noble Influence - No problems with the skills and possible expertise, though the UA abilities that give more are proficiency or expertise. However this gives more as well. Looks like it gives the help action, but you can be drunk and playing cards and they still get it. Not sure how that fits any narrative. If I thought granting two skills / expertise needed more power I might suggest allowing you to take the help action as a bonus action for your charge for any skill they are doing. Knight's Inspiration - reasonable until you factor in the horrible mess of Indomitable, at which point it becomes unreasonable. Also, WHAT IS THE NARRATIVE? You talked about that earlier, and now you not only aren't following it but seem to intentionally be stomping it into the dust. "Well, an hour ago I saved vs. turning to stone, so now you auto save against this fireball." Knight's Vengeance - I'm worried about this being too much of a multiplier since your attack already gets all the other boosts to attacks, but hey, it's high level, let's go for it. Knight's Banner - excellent! this is thematic and fun. I'd probably make it an aura though, otherwise you can make an entire army your charge, have a weak ally cast a spell so you can make a save, and give 1000 men an auto-success on their next save. Mercenary subclass Versatile combatant - fine. Some may quibble that donnign a shield takes an action but I'm fine with ti. lets you go ranged then change to melee or adjust what you have. I like how it encourages you to think more then just "this is the oen weapon I use". For the Right Price - same about the skills. Absolutely and completely not about the last ability. You don't get to magically (well, non-magically) put people out of business by doubling how much they have to pay out. Want advantage on rolls for pay, sure. That was a mistake - Quite flavorful. I'd give this a slight buff so you don't lose it. "When you hit with a weapon or unarmed, you gain a damage bonus ...". Though in rereading it it seems to can save against something and say 'that was a mistake" to someone else. It's flavorful if it's whomever you just saved against. Ready for action - just fine. Though amusingly if I have out a greataxe and you close with me, I can attack you with any of my weapons - except that greataxe. Seems to break narrative that I can't hit you with my ready weapon. Kensei Iaijutsu - like it. Might expand it to unarmed attacks as well - you can still parry a wolf's bite. Of Mind & Mastery - come on, where's the narrative? where the idea "bigger numbers aren't fun". This fails your goals. This isn't over - fine, unless you can auto-save on this with indominable, in which case no freaking way. Scout Duck and Cover - interesting. Distraction - I know your 10th level are "succeed on save" abilities, but as a trigger it really makes no sense. Why is making your save, vs. anything else you do including failing your save, so distracting? And laser-focused distracting - it can distract multiple foes, but only in regards to a single ally. Again, what's the narrative, including why do similar narratives fail? This seems like you are trying to shoehorn it in to be the exact triggering mechanic even if that's not the best way to represent this ability. ==== [B]Conclusion:[/B] I like how you expanded out that fighters are the best at getting more actions. I miss superiority dice. They are a unique fighter mechanic and the justification why they are no good you violate time and again in what you have here. Indomitably needs to go away hard. Many of these seems to be features that follow a mechanical vision but fail on your goal of providing a strong in-game narrative for how it works. If that's one of your goals (and I agree with it), then I'd revisit a number of these. [/QUOTE]
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