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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KidSnide" data-source="post: 5715166" data-attributes="member: 54710">The skill challenge variant discussed upthread is designed to address nearly all of these issues.  +/- 2 modifiers are replaced by +/- 15, +/- 10, and +/- 5 modifiers, and a substantial part of the challenge is figuring out the NPC's strengths and weaknesses, either through reasoning or through Insight/History/Streetwise/etc checks.I view a successful role as the NPC accepting that the PC made a good point, but not being convinced yet.  (I tend to nod and say something explicit like "That's a good point.")I let the PCs talk (either role-playing what they say or just describing the type of argument they make) and call for a role when they are done.  I give a small modifier (usually +/-2, occasionally higher) for good role-playing, but mostly I pay attention to whether they have used the evidence that is key in the conversation or played on a NPC weakness.After everyone has a turn (either gathering info or making a persuasion role), I have the NPC push back against one specific PC, usually forcing a role on a topic the PCs would prefer to avoid.  The players know that a core point or major weakness is worth a +10 modifier, with a +5 modifier for a supporting point or minor weakness and a +15 or +20 for a killer point / auto-success.  That usually means that it's always worth making an argument if you think you have a good point, but only the most persuasive characters should try prevaricating with nothing.Still, it's a good point.  I'm not sure the players get as much information as they should.  Maybe a good roll for info gathering should tell you how good a point it is?-KS</blockquote>

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