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Message: <blockquote data-quote="charlesatan" data-source="post: 4441987" data-attributes="member: 20870">I think this boiled down to expectations.First off, let's analyze the Purple Worm shall we?It's a level 16 Solo -- belonging to the Paragon Tier.I've noticed that by the Paragon Tier, the "Save or Die" effects start popping up. The Nightwalker has it, the Beholder has it, and in this case, let's just call the Purple Worm's Swallow ability a "Save or Die" effect.Now this I think is where James wants to counter. He doesn't think that Swallow is a "Save or Die" effect.But when I look at it, Swallow is like a "Save or Die" effect--although a step down from actual death because a) you can still attack, b) you're still alive for a few rounds or until the party can kill the Purple Worm, and c) you can escape via a few rare methods such as teleportation.However, how different is that from the Beholder's ability to Petrify a PC which is a virtual "turn off" button and the only difference between Petrification and Death is that the former can be healed with more convenience via a ritual--which takes place after combat.I don't think "Save or Die" effects are in the Heroic Tier. But come Paragon Tier, players have more options and there's not just an increase in power but there's also an increase in threat. (An extreme is comparing a Level 3 Solo with a Level 33 Solo.)And again, there are several conditions to meet before the Purple Worm's actual "Save or Die" effect takes place.Now James counters that the party didn't manage to counter the conditions for Swallow because it was a) Out of Character knowledge, b) the party's resources were mostly depleted, or c) his viable options required high rolls.Again, for a), I told him that in D&D, it's not rocket science that the "bloodied" condition is a bad thing and triggers a lot of abilities--hence it might be tactically smart not to get to such a condition.As for b), again, I countered with other examples wherein there are virtual turn-off buttons such as Orcus. The rebuttal? That the party has other means to counter it and that when a character dies, he/she gets stronger. I don't think that doesn't solve the resource question. If the party encountered Orcus when they had depleted most of their resources, it's still going to be a hard battle and they will just as easily fall for his "Save or Die" effects.(And my only comment on the entire session is look, the party did manage to defeat the modified Purple Worm, and you survived. There are worst game sessions, such as a TPK. Those few rounds might have been "boring" for you, but so is getting stunned and failing all your saving throws.)c) Again, I think it's great that D&D isn't reduce to a 50/50 roll. And as I said, I don't think you exploited all your other options. Again, if the rest of the party used the Aid Another action to help you escape the Grab, there's a probable chance that you would have. Also, the Purple Worm targets Reflex defenses and the Wizard theoretically has a decent Reflex defense (at least compared to, say, the Paladin).So "turn off buttons" exists in 4E? Yes--in the Paragon and higher tiers. Bad news? Yes. Automatic success? No--there are various requirements that must be met.</blockquote>

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