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Beyond Old and New School - "The Secret That Was Lost"
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 6229751" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>I was speaking directly to pemerton; unless you are pemerton and/or your view is identical to his, then yeah, sure, why not? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is where we can see that there is some flexibility in what a DM "is." I <em>love </em>worldbuilding, including (and perhaps especially) big picture stuff like cosmology, world maps, etc. I often find myself fretting over the look of this or that coastline, even though I know my players will likely never even go to 90% of the places on the world map, but that doesn't stop me, for two basic reasons: One, as I said, I love worldbuilding - I do it for my own enjoyment; and two, the more work I do beyond the "edges" of game play ("ludus incognita"), the more it enriches the area of play ("ludus cognita").</p><p></p><p>I find the worldbuilding approach of stopping at what is "sufficient for play to proceed" unsatisfying both as a DM (worldbuilder) and player, because the props, so to speak, end up feeling paper thin - like the western town in <em>Blazing Saddles. </em>This doesn't mean I think you or anyone that takes this approach is a bad DM, by the way - there are many aspects that go into good DMing, and a great worldbuilder and otherwise poor DM still makes for a shoddy game experience (just as an excellent DM can make up for paper-thin worldbuilding and still provide an enjoyable game). It is just that this is an important aspect of D&D for me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think [MENTION=17106]Ahnehnois[/MENTION] spoke to this better than I could have. My view is similar to his.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, I agree with this. But its really a spectrum, really, from utter free form and co-created, ala the "sandbox" approach, and what is pejoratively described as "railroading." I find myself enjoying the spectrum, but preferring an approach that incorporates elements from both extremes. I like a sandbox-style basic set-up, especially at the beginning, with plot-hooks and locations and encounters, and then I like weaving together these plot-hooks, perhaps guided by some underlying (or over-arching) story ideas that I want to instigate. But it isn't about me corralling the PCs in a direction they don't want to go; its about creating a symphony in which they can improvise within - "jazz-classical."</p><p></p><p>So the DM is also the <em>conductor </em>- but not of a pre-written orchestral piece, but a "jazz symphony" in which improvisation is not only possible but encouraged, and which no one is absolutely sure where things will end up. Some DMs want to know and <em>do </em>corral the PCs, I prefer not to - although there are always plot ideas that I'll find a way in if I really like them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I meant "casual" mainly in their overall interest in RPGs. I'm the only one that buys more than a book or two, that thinks about D&D beyond the session, at least significantly, or that posts on forums. But there's a range in terms of how well the players know the rules; some "get it," and some don't. And I can agree with you that for those who get it there's a lot more freedom, <em>but...</em>they still look at their character sheets as a menu of options (resources) and rarely improvise out of it. Or rather, they might come up with a description of what the character does and then they, the player, chooses which power fits that description (or usually vice versa). The problem being that there's a kind of artificial separation between character action and player choice (of resource).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well again, we disagree on the absoluteness of DM power here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Of course </em>the DM has greater knowledge of where the story is heading, at least in the approach I take, because the DM likely has plot hooks that they want to introduce. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd say guide, not constrain. But the DM <em>always </em>can over-rule the rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Assumed? No; I agree with you. Planned? Why not? Plans are flexible and can be changed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 6229751, member: 59082"] I was speaking directly to pemerton; unless you are pemerton and/or your view is identical to his, then yeah, sure, why not? ;) This is where we can see that there is some flexibility in what a DM "is." I [I]love [/I]worldbuilding, including (and perhaps especially) big picture stuff like cosmology, world maps, etc. I often find myself fretting over the look of this or that coastline, even though I know my players will likely never even go to 90% of the places on the world map, but that doesn't stop me, for two basic reasons: One, as I said, I love worldbuilding - I do it for my own enjoyment; and two, the more work I do beyond the "edges" of game play ("ludus incognita"), the more it enriches the area of play ("ludus cognita"). I find the worldbuilding approach of stopping at what is "sufficient for play to proceed" unsatisfying both as a DM (worldbuilder) and player, because the props, so to speak, end up feeling paper thin - like the western town in [I]Blazing Saddles. [/I]This doesn't mean I think you or anyone that takes this approach is a bad DM, by the way - there are many aspects that go into good DMing, and a great worldbuilder and otherwise poor DM still makes for a shoddy game experience (just as an excellent DM can make up for paper-thin worldbuilding and still provide an enjoyable game). It is just that this is an important aspect of D&D for me. I think [MENTION=17106]Ahnehnois[/MENTION] spoke to this better than I could have. My view is similar to his. Yes, I agree with this. But its really a spectrum, really, from utter free form and co-created, ala the "sandbox" approach, and what is pejoratively described as "railroading." I find myself enjoying the spectrum, but preferring an approach that incorporates elements from both extremes. I like a sandbox-style basic set-up, especially at the beginning, with plot-hooks and locations and encounters, and then I like weaving together these plot-hooks, perhaps guided by some underlying (or over-arching) story ideas that I want to instigate. But it isn't about me corralling the PCs in a direction they don't want to go; its about creating a symphony in which they can improvise within - "jazz-classical." So the DM is also the [I]conductor [/I]- but not of a pre-written orchestral piece, but a "jazz symphony" in which improvisation is not only possible but encouraged, and which no one is absolutely sure where things will end up. Some DMs want to know and [I]do [/I]corral the PCs, I prefer not to - although there are always plot ideas that I'll find a way in if I really like them. I meant "casual" mainly in their overall interest in RPGs. I'm the only one that buys more than a book or two, that thinks about D&D beyond the session, at least significantly, or that posts on forums. But there's a range in terms of how well the players know the rules; some "get it," and some don't. And I can agree with you that for those who get it there's a lot more freedom, [I]but...[/I]they still look at their character sheets as a menu of options (resources) and rarely improvise out of it. Or rather, they might come up with a description of what the character does and then they, the player, chooses which power fits that description (or usually vice versa). The problem being that there's a kind of artificial separation between character action and player choice (of resource). Well again, we disagree on the absoluteness of DM power here. [I]Of course [/I]the DM has greater knowledge of where the story is heading, at least in the approach I take, because the DM likely has plot hooks that they want to introduce. I'd say guide, not constrain. But the DM [I]always [/I]can over-rule the rules. Assumed? No; I agree with you. Planned? Why not? Plans are flexible and can be changed. [/QUOTE]
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