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Beyond Old and New School - "The Secret That Was Lost"
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6230286" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I don't struggle with the idea. I just think it's one of many possible mechanics, and if that's all you'll have you'll get a narrow game.</p><p></p><p>I think this is in fact shown by the fact that you still haven't actually told me how to resolve the battle captain in a non-4e game.</p><p></p><p>Here is the action the player wants to accomplish: I will charge the enemy, yelling a rousing war-cry, and when I hit it my allies, inspired by my example, will likewise charge the enemy without costing them an action in the action economy.</p><p></p><p>4e has a robust way to adjudicate such actions, via the allocation of daily powers. (Or encounter powers if it is a single ally who charges.)</p><p></p><p>I think [MENTION=66434]ExploderWizard[/MENTION] is correct that this is just impossible in classic D&D - to permit it would break the action economy. My feeling in relation to 3E is much the same, though my intuitive grasp of 3E is pretty limited.</p><p></p><p>The explanation is pretty clear: if your only rationing mechanic is roll vs target number then all you can trade off is likelihood vs effect, settling overall expected utilities. Whereas AEDU (or fate points, or Marvel Heroic SFX, etc) introduce other rationing devices which allow other ways of preventing breakage whilst still permitting reliable access to dramatic effects.</p><p></p><p>D&D uses this too, for spell users: would the game really be better if a magic-user (from 1st level?) had in principle unlimited access to Time Stop but had to make an inordinately hard d20 roll in order to perform that particular feat of magic? I think the answer to this is "obviously not". So if I'm to be persuaded that roll vs target number should be the only mechanism for allocating effects to non-casters, some argument is going to have to be given that actually addresses these issues.</p><p></p><p>(Even 3E actually has other rationing mechanics than roll vs target number: BAB also grants bonus attacks, rogues have reliable access to bonus damage plus daily abilities like defensive roll, etc.)</p><p></p><p>I don't really follow this: I don't see the comparison you're drawing between allocation of backstory authority ("Is my PC the heir to the throne?") and allocation of action resolution resources, which is what AEDU is about.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6230286, member: 42582"] I don't struggle with the idea. I just think it's one of many possible mechanics, and if that's all you'll have you'll get a narrow game. I think this is in fact shown by the fact that you still haven't actually told me how to resolve the battle captain in a non-4e game. Here is the action the player wants to accomplish: I will charge the enemy, yelling a rousing war-cry, and when I hit it my allies, inspired by my example, will likewise charge the enemy without costing them an action in the action economy. 4e has a robust way to adjudicate such actions, via the allocation of daily powers. (Or encounter powers if it is a single ally who charges.) I think [MENTION=66434]ExploderWizard[/MENTION] is correct that this is just impossible in classic D&D - to permit it would break the action economy. My feeling in relation to 3E is much the same, though my intuitive grasp of 3E is pretty limited. The explanation is pretty clear: if your only rationing mechanic is roll vs target number then all you can trade off is likelihood vs effect, settling overall expected utilities. Whereas AEDU (or fate points, or Marvel Heroic SFX, etc) introduce other rationing devices which allow other ways of preventing breakage whilst still permitting reliable access to dramatic effects. D&D uses this too, for spell users: would the game really be better if a magic-user (from 1st level?) had in principle unlimited access to Time Stop but had to make an inordinately hard d20 roll in order to perform that particular feat of magic? I think the answer to this is "obviously not". So if I'm to be persuaded that roll vs target number should be the only mechanism for allocating effects to non-casters, some argument is going to have to be given that actually addresses these issues. (Even 3E actually has other rationing mechanics than roll vs target number: BAB also grants bonus attacks, rogues have reliable access to bonus damage plus daily abilities like defensive roll, etc.) I don't really follow this: I don't see the comparison you're drawing between allocation of backstory authority ("Is my PC the heir to the throne?") and allocation of action resolution resources, which is what AEDU is about. [/QUOTE]
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Beyond Old and New School - "The Secret That Was Lost"
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